Cartage conversions?

Sporterized and unofficial modified Krags
todd444
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by todd444 »

i have two sporterized 1898 spr armory and 2 1898 apr armory actions sans bolt. i reload and i use cast boolits almost exclusively(20 vargart is jacketed bullets). i hunt deer and black bear. i know the krag is nothing special(it was bubbaed up long ago), but to me, the krag is an heirloom passed on to my sons. my great grandfather purchased it and he passed it on to my grandfather who gave to use(dad and late uncle). right before he(grandpap) died, he gave the krag to me.

30-40 krag made in 1903
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165gr ranch dog (173gr actual weight)
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100 yard targets
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sighting it in at 100 yards (7 - 10 are the group)
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after i used the krag deer hunting, i put on a no drill redfield 102k peep sight. then last year, after deer season, i stripped the stock, put on hartley's dark oil wood filler and minwax antique oil(8 or 10 coats) and johnson's paste wax. the cut off barrel and stock were done before my time, possibly before my great grandpap bought it. i have killed 6 or 7 deer with it(cast boolits) and my son has 5 or 6 deer(cast boolits) to his name.


the other krags' need rebarreled. the first krag will be 9.3/30-40 krag, the second will be 22 hornet. the third one, well....i have my choices narrowed down to two. the 25/30-40 krag or the 405 JES(cut down 444 marlin and reamed to .411"). i'll probably go with 25 krag, but that 405 JES(40-42,000 max psi?) is really sneaking up on me.


there are a bunch of rimmed cartridges that go 40,000 psi and under. but i'd still go with the 30-40 krag.
Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by butlersrangers »

Edited photo of OP's Krag, from previous posts.

I wonder about the condition of the bore?
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FredC
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by FredC »

The Krag is not weak because of the single lug. It is quite sizeable. It is the steel alloy. The material is butter soft under the case. Modern case hardening steels like 8620 can be mock hardened with no case and reach strengths comparable to heat treated 4140 used in many receivers and bolts. So you have 2 surfaces in the same condition one in the bolt and one in the receiver that have a fairly deep (cyanide paste was used on both faces to increase the case depth) surface hardening with a very soft material under that case.
So you have 2 areas with hard surfaces and soft cores to start moving with over pressure. Not just the bolt.


I am with the others if Krag cartridges are unavailable 303 cases will work in a pinch. Reloading can be done with hand tools like the Lyman nut cracker. I used my dad's 310 tool stamped 30-06 to load for the Krag with no issues. BR had one in 30/40 that was troublesome for him. I can not explain that one, but the tool uses no bench space.

I would not go the 303 barrel route with factory ammo, but if you do you will need to watch for bolt cracks and increase of head space. After a while if the head space increases you could replace the bolt with NOS unit from GrandPa's. But you will only fix the bolt, any movement of the lug surface in the receiver will still be there.

As an addition, I thought I would explain "mock hardening". It is taking a steel that is meant for case hardening through the process of hardening and tempering with out introducing the carbon in the "skin" of a metal sample. Most often a 1 " bar is used. I have never heard what alloy equivalent was used in Krags, the term mild machinery steel is the best description that I have heard. My guess is the base alloy before "casing" was similar to today's 1010. The penetration of the carbon was fairly shallow except on the surfaces that were coated with cyanide paste. My guess is the hard skin on the bolt and receiver is .010 to .020 deep on the regular carborized surfaces and maybe .040 to .060 deep on the cyanide painted surfaces.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by butlersrangers »

Basic 'Kragonomics':

Estimated gun-show value of OP's altered & scoped model 1896 Krag, with Weaver Scope = $300 to $400 (and difficult to sell)

Cost of proposed custom barrel in .303 British @ $240, plus labor for installation, cutting for extractor & adjusting headspace @ $227 = $467 total

Estimated gun-show value of the altered cut-down, scoped Krag, with new custom barrel in non-original caliber, (which should be custom loaded to reduce pressures) = $300 ? (and very difficult to sell)

Estimated value if above Krag is left alone and the original shortened barrel has a nice bore = $300 to $400 (and difficult to sell)

It is a free country. "Ya pays your money and ya votes your choice".

Value of my advice = 2 Centavos

todd444
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by todd444 »

sporterized 1898 spr armory in 30-40 krag that is rusted and a split in the stock, cost me $125. i'll post pix next week or two.
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1898 spr armory action sans bolt cost me $15 or 20.
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i bought them both last year. i know i ain't gonna get much out of them, but that's not the reason why? i'm doing it fer me.
Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by butlersrangers »

A good stripped action, with some time and luck in accumulating parts, can result in a useful utility Krag.

This is getting more difficult and expensive to accomplish. Parts are getting harder to find and more costly.

It is mighty easy to put too much money into a Krag project, but for some, it is "Do-able" and the challenge is Fun!
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FredC
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by FredC »

http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.co ... 650#p38650
Since we are discussing bringing back actions now, this thread may be of interest. Interesting to hear if someone contacts them. The stocks they build for Krags, are they sporter types, copies of armory stocks or both styles? I hate to see us buying up old receivers to build something and someone else is taking them apart to sell pieces that we need. If someone is really making new wood it will take away some of the demand for original stocks.

Checked their website and the photos show military configuration with hand guards. Not sure if they will build sporter stocks.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by butlersrangers »

A quick look reveals rossriflerestorations.com to be a Canadian concern that uses a stock duplicating machine to make new stocks by tracing available or customer provided 'pattern' stock.

They don't state where they are located. I would envision some headaches dealing with U.S. and Canadian Customs.

They appear to have access to a U.S. Model 1898 rifle stock. It would seem a lot of fitting would be involved.
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Ned Butts
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by Ned Butts »

Things are drifting

FredC
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Re: Cartage conversions?

Post by FredC »

Maybe a little windage adjustment would help?

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