Model 1863 Type II "1864" Springfield musket

[Jeremy T Garner]

This is not really in my wheelhouse for collecting but I stumbled across a rather clean example in a pawn shop. Wood and metal were really in remarkable condition. From my limited knowledge there was somewhere around 25,000 of these made and if I'm not mistaken it was one of if not the last US adopted muzzleloading service weapon. Price based on condition seemed very reasonable for a piece of Civil War history at $800. I am seriously considering purchasing it but I thought I would pick the brain of those who know more than I. I didn't get a chance to write the serial number down sadly. The ramrod style on this one was the tulip head design. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[butlersrangers]

'Jeremy' - FWIW - An original 1863 Springfield Rifled-Musket will not have a 'serial number'.

$800 would be a bargain for an original CW Arm in good 'shooting' condition.

However, use caution. There have been convincing replicas made with original looking markings.

40 years ago, Yeck Antique Arms in Michigan made a very nice Springfield copy that was hard to tell from the real thing, except it was new.

Some vendors 'defarb' Italian replicas by removing modern markings, national proofs, and correcting contours. With use, they can be very authentic looking.

A high grade replica can be worth $800. You just need to know what you're getting.

Nowadays, this means taking such an arm apart and studying threads, inletting, and parts fabrication, with a trained & experienced eye.

My $.02!

[Jeremy T Garner]

Good point on the serial number I was thinking of my trapdoor and not the muskets. So clearly you can see I have had limited time with these. :) There is no doubt in my mind this is original. There is of course patina and wear on the weapon that I don't think anyone could fake or simulate to this degree. From the muzzle end there is wear on the rifling to the degree you can hardly see it. Improper cleaning and loading techniques?, firing rapidly in haste?, or just honest use?. Aside from the very end of the barrel where there is some visible pitting, stated wear, and coloration change the rest of the weapon particularly the stock is in incredible shape for being that old. I want to get a second look at the gun but I have to work today so I will call the shop and have them put it aside for me with a small refundable deposit as I am off on Tuesday from work which is also coincidentally my birthday!

[Dick Hosmer]

When you say "Type II" or "1864", I'm assuming the musket has band springs? The tulip-head rod is earlier, but mixups like that do occur, and are accepted by all but the most fussy collectors.

Anyhow, slide the bands forward and look at the rear of the spring mortise(s). SA arms will be cut sharp and square, while modern (power router cut) preps will be rounded.

Your "tip for the day". Sounds like a nice piece and quite a bargain if real.

[butlersrangers]

Happy Birthday Jeremy and have a great Tuesday!

(Believe it or not, back in the 1960s there were very few replicas & reproductions and they were obvious. It was a lot less confusing then).

[Jeremy T Garner]

Yes sir it had band springs and the lock plate was dated 1864. From my reading this model design was made in 1864 and 1865 and I had also read that some of the earlier 1864 dated examples would be acceptable with the "Tulip style rod" but it wasn't a dedicated Springfield collectors book that I read it in. Thank you for the birthday wishes and I am hoping this rifle works out because it would be a splendid birthday present to myself!

[Jeremy T Garner]

Photos. I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated. Final price would be $850.

[Jeremy T Garner]

Photos continued

[psteinmayer]

WOW... Looks pretty good to me (although I'm in no way an expert... or even a novice for that matter).

[Jeremy T Garner]

I'm in the same club Paul! I'm a novice on these for sure! A local collector friend of mine looked at the photos and mentioned it most likely was a militia gun as there was no cartouche at the wrist on the left of the gun.