Boiling, Bubba or not?

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Zac952
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Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by Zac952 »

Now a lot has come up in regard to boiling rusted parts as to preserve the finish and remove rust and "patina" which I consider rust, now I always boil rusted gun parts in distilled water as soon as I get them, I don't boil every gun, only if it's rusted, this doesn't change the finish it only prevents rust from growing and reverts the brown patina back to what it would look like if it was well taken care of through the years rather than let rust.
To demonstrate this and how it doesn't change the finish here is a example, and a a fun one at that.
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One of these was covered in rust when I got it, and was boiled, can you guess which one? And explain what your seeing if you have a reason, or just make a fun guess anyway.
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King carp
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by King carp »

My guess would be the bottom rifle in the second photo you have up.

FredC
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Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by FredC »

I am not 100 percent convinced that boiling is preferable to honest patina in a collector's piece. That said if you do want to renew the blued finish on a barrel, I would say that your rust bluing is preferable to the traditional polishing and bluing which removes metal from the object being polished. On receivers I understand the original finish was case hardened with no additional finish. Bluing a receiver seems to be going for a "look" and not trying to refresh an original "look'. Since polishing involves removing enough metal to make the surface smooth or almost smooth some of the original case is removed. A couple of polishings in the long potential life of a receiver would remove all the case. If you are not worried about removing part of the case polishing also takes away from the crispness and legibility of the stamps on the receiver. All that been said your boiling is certainly the better of the two if you want the blue receiver look.

Zac952
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by Zac952 »

Fred, I think there has been a misconception on boiling, it doesn't add color except where the rust is, and if it's light rust the color is almost non existent and grayish at most. For example here is an 1899 Krag reciever that was boiled, no chemical added to produce rust like in a standard rust blue process, just boiled
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Notice the spots toward the top of the receiver, this is where the rust was and now is light Mottled spots commonly found on Krag receivers, the only difference is these spots will not develop into pitting now as the rust would have. If I were to have scrubbed the rust off then I would have scrubbed the case hardened color off, and not only on the spots on wherever the brush touched,
Boiling is a way to preserve not add color.
This Swiss rifles demonstrate that as the receiver finish is indistinguishable between the two, when one was brown and actively rusting when I got it, by boiling it I removed no finish, added no finish, noted by the wear and light bluing on it after boiling.

FredC
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by FredC »

OK I got it, super duty cleaning to prevent the progression of rust.

I still would think about it long and hard before doing it to a high dollar collector's piece.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by butlersrangers »

I don't believe your boiling process does any harm. I may even try it sometime on a rusty part.
The process likely warms up and liquefies old dried crud, hardened cosmoline, and softens rust scale.

A good soak in kerosene and addressing built-up rust with solvent soaked #0000 steel wool or bronze wool, 'carding' with nylon or bronze brushes, reducing scale with a copper penny or .45 cartridge-case, and burnishing surfaces with a wood stick and linseed oil/rust particle slurry may give an even more pleasing result.

I remember years ago restorers differentiating between 'active' rust and stable or inert rust. The goal was to stop rust activity and prevent or arrest deeper pitting. Rust scale was lifted & leveled (using an oil film, single-edge razor blade or brass edge) to original surface without harming surviving finish. Finesse and angle was important, so as not to scratch underlying surface.

If pitting had occurred, the active rust was cleaned out of the pits with solvents, picks and bronze brushes, the exposed irregular surface was rendered inert with preservative oil or rust inhibiting grease or wax.

Rust can be neutralized. In reality old browning and bluing is a controlled rust process.

I view 'boiling' parts as a potential tool, but not a panacea for metal finish preservation.

FWIW - The first attached photo shows a metal 'state' I can live with, (There is very little remaining color and the receiver was once painted with black enamel that I removed with #0000 steel wool and nail polish remover).
The second photo shows a re-blued 'condition' I would not purchase.
Attachments
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Zac952
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by Zac952 »

I agree with you BR on those krags, I very much loathe a hot blued high polished finish on any military rifle. I would take little to no finish over that.
Alot of finishes are ruined by excessive brushing in a attempt to remove rust, boiling is a way to convert the rust without removing finish. It works exceptionally well without much effort and like you said BR is just one tool. In my experience it is very difficult to mess up provided one just goes with 0000 steel wool and reboil if necessary rather than move to a more aggressive steel wool or wire brush.

Also Fred I do agree on serious collector pieces that one must take caution with everything about them, some to even abstain from shooting them, for example an original Parkhurst device or a BOF rifle I would likely consult a expert in artifact preservation, but I would definitely not consider leaving them in a rusted state long term.
Boiling is a way to stop degradation and preserve the piece, not alter it.
I don't like refinishing a military firearm unless the finish has been damaged to beyond unsightly, and then only with historical correct finishes.
And the finish damage must be post military use to constitute refinishing, honest wear is what I prefer.

misanthrope
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by misanthrope »

download/file.php?mode=view&id=3655 This old H&R revolver was coated with rust to the point that the lettering on the barrel was illegible. Boiling removed most of the rust and left the remaining finish intact, along with the pitting.
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butlersrangers
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by butlersrangers »

'Misanthrope' - You certainly made the appearance of your H&R revolver more appealing and presentable.
IMHO - this is a very acceptable state of preservation for a firearm that went through "a harsh period of neglect".

I like using "RIG" (rust inhibiting grease) for preserving such surfaces. It is not overly greasy, penetrates into the metal surface irregularities and helps arrest any further rust activity. It helps give metal a nice protected appearance.

I have a 'RIG Rag' which is an oval shaped pad of sheepskin with fleece. I put occasional dabs of RIG grease and some drops of "CLP" oil on the fleece and rub the folded pad against itself. It stores on a cleaning-area shelf in an open zip-lock bag.

After using and cleaning a firearm, I wipe the exposed metal surfaces with the RIG pad. It leaves a dull protective coat on the metal that seems to work, fine!

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butlersrangers
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Re: Boiling, Bubba or not?

Post by butlersrangers »

bump

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