Krag reference

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sonexpilot
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:35 pm

Krag reference

Post by sonexpilot »

HI gents; First post ever. I have a friend who is an advisor to a large insurance company who has been tasked to help settle a claim. A collector who has passed has a daughter who suffered a house fire two years ago. He supposedly had several Krags. When I visited with my friend to maybe help evaluate values we found probably 150 rifles stacked in layers seperated by sheets. We found no contact fire damage but all weapons had smoke damage. There is a very fine coat of rust and hopefully there is very little pitting so far. I hope to purchase a few and would like a suggestion on a reference book for krag identification i.e. serial # ranges and appropriate model part numbers.
Thanks for any help.
Riddick

FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Krag reference

Post by FredC »

Sure would have been a good thing to have a knowledgeable person do a cleaning just after the smoke deposit. Probably could have prevented any damage.

With just serial numbers the fellows here probably can give you guesses as to the year model and what to look for. But there are ranges in the serial numbers where the models are mixed so that will not tell you everything or possibly nothing.

Get some photos and the experts here can tell you a lot about each one.

Oh, and welcome to KCA.

On reference books, the guys here have several that they rely on, no single book seems to have everything.

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butlersrangers
Posts: 9827
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Krag reference

Post by butlersrangers »

'sonexpilot' - Welcome to the KCA forum!

i don't believe there is any book that is very useful for estimating current gun values.
IMHO - Recent gun prices have been in a strange state of flux. Price-guide books have historically been way off the mark.

Some very recent large auction-house sales of exceptional Krag and 'trap-door' Springfield rifles and carbines have brought less money than expected.
Some GunBroker sales have brought inflated prices for poor, flawed, and misidentified pieces.

(We could be going through a period when knowledge, numbers, age, and interests of gun fanciers are changing)?

The largest factor in pricing a firearm is CONDITION. (This presumes original finish and parts. A non-arsenal refinished firearm's value is greatly diminished).

RARITY certainly enhances the value of a firearm, but rarity is very subjective. Rarity is trumped by Condition, Interest and Demand. Some rare guns are not in high demand.

Knowledge, an experienced eye, and watching sales and markets, enters into estimating realistic gun values.

A useful resource for understanding and identifying many aspects and details about the U.S Krag is an inexpensive book, Joseph Poyer's "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine". This is often listed on ebay for less than $30.00, shipped.
Last edited by butlersrangers on Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Krag reference

Post by Whig »

The quickest way to get your information, as Fred said above, is to post pictures here and we can help out quicker and with more details than you'll be able to get from the few good Krag references out there. We have the combined knowledge and experience of probably 100 years or more with the ones of us who have collected, fixed, researched and shot Krag rifles and carbines on this site at your disposal- free! We love doing it and I'd love to see pictures of the Krags, and other rifles also, that you are talking about.

Welcome to KCA!

sonexpilot
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:35 pm

Re: Krag reference

Post by sonexpilot »

Thanks for the info gentlemen. I am not certain that I will even be able to acquire a Krag but I certainly intend to try. Also there were many long guns that I could not even identify because of the fine layer of rust obscuring the markings. Supposedly there are many Krags in that pile. I did not mention it in my first post but he also has two large plastic garbage cans, one with 20 to 30 long swords and another with same number of bayonets. I was so overcome with our supposed task of "evaluating" that I did not even look at any of these. It will probably be a while but I pledge to keep this group informed because of your kindness. Yes, I have thought of making a lump sum offer hoping that there might be a gem in there instead of just a pile of rust! I guess that would be a pretty big gamble and I am not in favor of gambling.
As a retired farmer I have heard many people compare farming to gambling. To me, farming is taking a calculated risk while gambling is someone attempting to get something for nothing.
Sorry for the rant!
Thanks again, Riddick

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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Krag reference

Post by butlersrangers »

"Riddick" - What area of the country do you live in? You need some 'hands on' help & guidance!

It would be beneficial to find and involve a knowledgeable & ethical collector/'gun guy' to help you assess this cache of guns and edged weapons.

(Be forewarned, many gun show 'collectors' would take full advantage of this situation. They would exploit the lack of knowledge of the owners and yourself, to grab the opportunity to make a big profit for themselves).

There are also ethical gun enthusiasts, who have a broad understanding of firearms, can recognize the various models and origins, give a ball park idea of value, and instruct on cleaning and stabilizing the condition of these arms.
Their time and expertise is worth something, (maybe a nice dinner and the chance to buy a collectible item at a fair price), but the main motivation will be to save the collection from further deterioration and be fair to all concerned.

The trick is finding the right person! That person might be a KCA member, who lives nearby?

Maybe a first step is to wipe away some surface rust and the smoke soot, using cotton rags and mineral spirits. Wipe off crud and excess solvent with soft rags or paper towels.
(Dispose of rags properly, so you don't start another fire)!

Metal surfaces can then be wiped down with WD-40 or RIG to arrest further rusting. Markings will likely become visible during initial cleaning.
Avoid using harsh abrasives.
Gun bores should be swabbed with a rod and patch, using a solvent like Hoppes #9, followed up with a greasy patch of RIG (rust inhibiting grease).

My suggestions are just meant to stabilize these guns and edged weapons from further deterioration, until skilled cleaning can be performed.

BTW - Bayonets and swords can have remarkable values, that have increased in recent years.

I hope you come out of this situation with some nice items to enjoy in retirement!

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Local Boy
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:03 pm

Re: Krag reference

Post by Local Boy »

Hi Riddick,

Welcome to KCA,

What an exciting opportunity you have. I'm sure you'll be more than up to the challenge considering your back ground in farming and aviation.

BR has provided sound advice and he's corrected in saying that many of the KCA members would provide any assistance possible!

Hey, maybe you could even fly a member to your location in an experimental aircraft...how cool would that be!!! :D

BTW: worldbayonets. com is an excellent source of info concerning bayonet identification.

Good luck and God Bless!
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FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Krag reference

Post by FredC »

Lot of stuff going on here. With Br in stabilizing things and stopping the corrosion right away. Eventually you will want to disassemble stuff and do a thorough anti corrosion and a conservation effort in mind. The dad spent a lot of time finding and collecting this stuff. So the daughter should benefit from the effort.

I see the effort in more or less that order. Whoever takes this stuff apart and does the thorough cleaning needs to have a professional attitude and professional screw drivers to do no harm. Maybe a years long effort.

Doubly Reincarnated
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:51 am

Re: Krag reference

Post by Doubly Reincarnated »

Welcome, Riddick

There is a place in this forum to discuss firearms that are not Krags. Many years of collecting, accumulating, & studying experience here.

Waterman

sonexpilot
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:35 pm

Re: Krag reference

Post by sonexpilot »

Thanks again gentlemen. I would be more than willing to pay for expert advice to someone I could trust! My older brother passed a few years ago and his widow asked for my help in liquidating most of his "eclectic" collection. I had a local FFL dealer with a gunbroker account list several and believe we got reasonable payment. I had fallen in love with an 1853 Purdey black powder side by side. Also W&C Scott over and under 16 ga. I had both weapons appraised four times by what I considered knowledgeable people. I even carried the purdey to Ozark, Mo to a former gunsmith that had worked for purdey and had owned a rare gun store. Please don't laugh at me but I payed him $200/hour to go over and through the purdey. I am convinced he new his business. Had all the specialized tools.
Turns out it is a fairly rare 18 ga. probably converted from flint lock to percussion. Yes, I went to great links to insure that I payed my sister-in-law a fair price.
I guess I am a fairly rare duck in that if I found a rare firearm that retained some considerable value I would feel obligated to tell this lady because she does not have any idea what she has. I would trust that she would reward me for being honest and if not I could still sleep at night.
I talked this afternoon with my friend who is supposed to advise the insurance company and he said we will meet with the lady soon. I will keep this group advised and really do appreciate your help.
Location- Tennessee
Riddick

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