Help with accuracy

Ammunition, reloading, shooting, etc
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trapdoor4570
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 4:55 pm

Help with accuracy

Post by trapdoor4570 »

I have found the Krag is capable of fine accuracy given the right loads and being handled properly.

I have found the stock is part of the problem due to the weakness caused by the magazine. Now days I use what I have found was called the “Texas hold”. In the Texas hold the rifle is held or supported at the magazine not the forearm, the barrel vibrations are more uniform. In old photographs from the turn of the 20th century Krag’s and rifles with 2 piece stocks were held by the receiver when being deliberately fired at the target reducing the dispersion from changing barrel vibrations. I have found this true with the Krag and the Winchester 1892.

At 100 yards the 5 fouling shots were fired with the foremen resting on the rest using very deliberate aim, the 3 sight adjusting shots were fired with the magazine area on the rest. The 7 final shots were fired with the same care with the magazine resting on the rest.

The load is a simple one, Lyman 311332 and 15.4 grains of IMR 4227, dropped not weighed and new full length sized BCC cases and a foam wad.
I hope this helps someone.

Trapdoor4570
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butlersrangers
Posts: 7443
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Help with accuracy

Post by butlersrangers »

Thanks, lots of food for thought.

Nice target style.

madsenshooter
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:00 am
Location: Upper Appalachia aka SE Ohio

Re: Help with accuracy

Post by madsenshooter »

I get close to that magazine hold in prone, in fact thought about trying it but realized that meant moving my support hand before I could open the magazine. That'd ruin my "load without taking the rifle off your shoulder" move! I understand you're talking off the bench though. I got some really good results with 4227 too! Went through a pound of it long ago. Then I got off on pursuing Blue Dot loads.

Doubly Reincarnated
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:51 am

Re: Help with accuracy

Post by Doubly Reincarnated »

The reference to the foam wad bothers me. If you retain the foam wad in the neck of the cartridge case, that's OK. BUT if the foam wad is allowed to come into contact with the 4227, to hold the powder in position near the primer, or if it falls through the case neck and into the powder space, you are courting trouble. Positioning a wad on top of the powder and then firing the cartridge can cause a pressure wave to build in the case before the bullet fully enters the rifling. When that pressure wave peaks, the bullet acts like a cork and the chamber walls can be permanently distorted, pretty much ruining the barrel.

This was demonstrated in the 1960s by Charlie Dell and Wayne Schwartz in their book "The Modern Schuetzen Rifle". Us single shot guys shoot lead bullets with light loads of fast burning powder. And the Krag was designed to use as a single shot, so you don't need to release your hold on the magazine.

trapdoor4570
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 4:55 pm

Re: Help with accuracy

Post by trapdoor4570 »

Thank you for your concern.

Yes rifles were ruined by reduced charges of H-4831 with or without wading. The NRA investigated this in the ‘60s, I believe with the help of H.P White labs. The tests were never able to replicate the problem in the lab but all agreed that there were too many reports from reputable loaders to deny the reports. The recommendation was not to go below listed starting loads in the slower powders.

I have been using wads for around 54 years with no indication of a problem in many 10’s of thousands of rounds. They have been from Bullseye gallery loadings through the 38gr.4895 mid range load using lead and jacketed bullets. 30/40, ’06, 45/70, 8mm……..

Now days almost all my loads are loaded with powders that fall in the burn speed range from 2400 to 4198.

Wading provides a more uniform ignition and prevents hangfires, for me.

I have had nothing to indicate a high pressure load to me. YES I many times have a flattened primer that looks like it was from a proof load. On deeper investigation I find the primer had backed out before the charge fully ignited and came to pressure. In these cases many times the primer does not reseat back in the primer pocket and transmitted the pressure thrust to the bolt face and the case base never touched the bolt face When the case is examined the head expansion is nonexistent and sometimes mouth blowby definitely shows low pressure. . I have even seen this on U.S. government .30 M2 ball rounds loaded in the 50’s with ball powder, now those primers were flattened.

I would NEVER use a load below the listed starting charge of 4831,4350 or any of the slow powders.

I will not recommend wading to any other reloader, due to liability concerns.

What I do use is a wad of Dacron ½” thick cut with a 5/8” wad punch or open cell foam cut the same way. Open cell foam can be breathed through easily closed cell foam cannot be breathed through easily.

Frankford arsenal used kapok wading to hold charges in place for the reduced loads for simulating down range test results in the lab. This was for both .30 & .50 rounds.

Again thank you for your concern.

These are just the ramblings of an old man on the downhill slide looking wistfully back at 70.

Trapdoor4570

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