Vithavuori for the 30-40

Ammunition, reloading, shooting, etc
FredC
Posts: 1124
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by FredC »

I am late to this party and do not know what 1998 you have, but I have 2 ladder sights one a carbine and one rifle. Assuming you have a standard length barrel and a correct front sight, the 100 yard setting should get you on the paper. Depending on the velocity you are shooting you should be remarkably close at 100 meters with any thing like a moderate load and those bullets. Both my ladder sights can only use the peep hole at 100 yards with the ladder erect, the notch on top of the slider has a 400 yard minimum. If you use it with the ladder all the way down and the slider all the way back you are set for 100 yards there. The difference between 100 meters and 100 yards is about ten yards (9.36 to be more exact). You could fudge the sight laying down 10% of the distance to 200 yards and may be a little bit closer on your first shot or not. Not sure if I was even helpful here.

100 meters equals 109.361 yards.

User avatar
butlersrangers
Posts: 7431
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by butlersrangers »

Hi 'Donki', I am taking the liberty of posting some pictures of the Krag, that you shared on the Milsurps Forum.

(BTW - Donki is a French member of the KCA Forum, who acquired a very nice U.S. Krag in France, last year).

His Krag has the model 1901 sight, which has long been popular on the Target Shooting Range.
(As FredC explained, the sight's number graduations are in yards).

For 100 and 200 Meters, it is worthwhile trying the sight at '100' and '200', respectively.

To use the 'peep' aperture, the leaf has to be vertical. The scribed-line at the aperture aligns with the range mark. (Yellow arrows highlight the marks that should be lined-up).

To use the "V" notch, the leaf is left in the 'down' position.
The top edge of the 'slide' is lined-up with the desired 'range' line, on the side of the sight-base.
The "B" is a 'battle setting' (at 375 yards). With the sight set to this mark, a man-size target theoretically will be struck from zero to 525 yards, if aim is taken at the waist belt.

(I have highlighted with 'arrows' the sight 'points' that should be lined-up for 100 yard or 100 meter 'sighting-in').
Attachments
donki1967 rifle.JPG
donki1967 rifle.JPG (130.13 KiB) Viewed 427 times
donki1967 Nj.JPG
donki1967 Nj.JPG (72.27 KiB) Viewed 427 times
donki sight.JPG
donki sight.JPG (109.31 KiB) Viewed 427 times
Krag 1901 leaf.jpg
Krag 1901 leaf.jpg (30.53 KiB) Viewed 427 times
Last edited by butlersrangers on Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
butlersrangers
Posts: 7431
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by butlersrangers »

Ordnance manual pages for the model 1901 sight.

The sight is more simple than the explanation! :D
Attachments
krag Ord. Manual 1917.jpg
krag Ord. Manual 1917.jpg (71.45 KiB) Viewed 425 times
a manual-29.jpg
a manual-29.jpg (160.2 KiB) Viewed 425 times
a manual-30.jpg
a manual-30.jpg (173.87 KiB) Viewed 425 times
a manual-31.jpg
a manual-31.jpg (175.7 KiB) Viewed 425 times
a manual-32.jpg
a manual-32.jpg (107.73 KiB) Viewed 425 times

donki1967
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:05 pm

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by donki1967 »

Gentlemen,

I asked this question because on my other us weapons, namely for my P17 and 1903 the sight calibration for my reloaded 30-06 ammunition does not correspond to my POI compared to the real distance.
For example, to hit full center a target placed at 100 m with my P 17, I have to display 400 Yards on my rear ladder sight.
By the way, as usual, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!

User avatar
butlersrangers
Posts: 7431
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by butlersrangers »

'Donki': It appears you have the proper height front-sight blade, on your Krag, for the model 1901 rear-sight.

If you line-up the 'peep' aperture with the 100 yard mark on the leaf, you may be very pleasantly surprised by where your shots strike at 100 meters.

Let us know how your rifle performs!

FredC
Posts: 1124
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by FredC »

With the bullet shape in your photo and figuring you are going to get around 2100 feet per second velocity, I would think the 100 yard setting will be close. Your bullet is a little more streamlined than original so its velocity out at 100 yards would be close to the original. Sometimes the front sight gets file adjusted and while it looks original, it fit someone else's needs. Br could give you the height of an original sight if you want to check it before you go to the range.

And there you have it, Br beat me by a couple of seconds.

larrys
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by larrys »

I would start with the rear sight at 100 M. When shooting a rifle for the first time, I use a large piece of cardboard (1M x 1M) for my target backstop at 50 yards (or meters). Even if the rifle shoots way off, you will probably still hit the cardboard.
Larry

donki1967
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:05 pm

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by donki1967 »

DSC03110.jpg
DSC03110.jpg (392.02 KiB) Viewed 359 times
DSC03109.jpg
DSC03109.jpg (443.81 KiB) Viewed 359 times
DSC03108.jpg
DSC03108.jpg (490.32 KiB) Viewed 359 times
DSC03107.jpg
DSC03107.jpg (499.82 KiB) Viewed 359 times
Hi
As said I took my 1898 to the range for the first time this Sunday morning.
The target was at a distance of 100 meters, the weather was good without wind.
As recommended, I adjusted the leaf side at 100 yards, and fired five reloaded cartridges.
The result on the target is way below what I expected, but I could notice that this rifle had no mechanical problem,the chamber is without corrosion, the trigger and bolt cycling are precise and soft.
So here are some pics...
Attachments
DSC03111.jpg
DSC03111.jpg (432.72 KiB) Viewed 359 times

User avatar
butlersrangers
Posts: 7431
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by butlersrangers »

Hi Donki. Did you use the same sight picture for each shot or did you start adjusting where you aimed?

Was there any soot on your fired cartridge-case necks?

I would suggest trying 41 or 42 grains of N-160, adjusting sight windage a bit to the left, and setting sight to 200 yards.
Actually, some of your shots are not that far from what I suspect was your point of aim (orange diamond).

You may have some vertical 'stringing' of shots.
This is worth a try:
1. Try loosening your trigger-guard screws.
2. Vibrate or shake the rifle, while pressing the action down into the stock, with a firm hand grip.
3. Firmly tighten the front guard screw. Lightly tighten the rear guard screw, until it is just 'snug'.

In my opinion and experience: (You want the barrel to lie flat in the stock's barrel-channel.
Over-tightening the rear screw can 'lever' and lift the Krag barrel off of the stock wood.
This presses the top of the barrel into the barrel-bands, causing unwanted tension & variation).

The Krag's trigger-guard screws are very close together. There is only a thin amount of wood connecting the stock's butt area to the forearm. It is easy to 'flex' the stock in the magazine area.

It can take several 5 shot groups with a lot of rifles for metal and wood to settle into place.
Attachments
donki-target.jpg
donki-target.jpg (115.08 KiB) Viewed 355 times
donki-rounds.jpg
donki-rounds.jpg (115.71 KiB) Viewed 355 times

User avatar
Parashooter
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:14 am
Location: Kragmudgeon House, CT

Re: Vithavuori for the 30-40

Post by Parashooter »

Your low point of impact with the 100-yard sight setting is likely due to a combination of factors -

1. Your 39.5 grain of N160 charge is very conservative. QuickLOAD software estimates pressure about 24000psi and velocity near 2000fps. (It also indicates this is a very inefficient load, with over 20% of powder unburned in the 30" barrel.)
2. The sights are calibrated for the trajectory and recoil of a 220 grain bullet at ~2000fps. With your lighter bullet at a similar velocity, there is less recoil impulse and therefore less muzzle rise during the portion of recoil occurring before the bullet leaves the barrel.
3. You are firing at 100 meters, not 100 yards. This adds about 9 yards for ~0.5" more bullet drop.

Since your load doesn't appear to be grouping well, you might want to change it. A faster powder could be more efficient. You will still probably need to raise the rear sight to compensate for reduced recoil impulse with the 180 grain bullet and your 100 meter target distance.
QL3040N1xx.gif
QL3040N1xx.gif (12 KiB) Viewed 351 times
QuickLOAD estimates are NOT load recommendations!

Post Reply