Sight Questions

[bote]

I've been trying out the adjustable sight combinations without much success. So far, I prefer the peep in the 1901 with the leaf raised. One of my Krags had the peep enlarged to .100" sometime in it's life and I like that one the best. The problem is the skinny front sight. I don't think the CMP rules allow anything wider than the original. Anyone have any success with anything not illegal?

Were the 1902 sights ever fitted as original? I have two 1902 dated original rifles and a 1903 and they all have the 1901 sight. I purchased a 1902 sight just to try.

[butlersrangers]

'Bote' - The 1902 sight was an 'updating' and improvement of the obsolete model 1898 sight. (Both of these rugged sight models were designed by Lt. T.C. Dickson).

In the early 1900's, it was one of the two sights, that the Ordnance Department wanted on all service Krags. (Late, Krag Ordnance manuals would eventually just illustrate the model 1901 and model 1902 rear-sights).

The early rod-bayonet, 1903 Springfield, had a rear-sight that was derived from the Krag model 1902 sight.

In 1905, the 1903 Springfield underwent changes, which included switching to a long Knife-Bayonet and a new rear-sight derived from, the 'Buffington' designed, Krag model 1901 sight.

It is a commonly stated 'view', that around 1903, it was preferred the Regular U.S. Army have Krags fitted with model 1902 sights.
After 1905, this changed to a preference that 'Regulars' have Krags with the model 1901 sight, to better simulate the Model 1903 rifles coming into service.
The Krag rifles, with 1902 sights, were supposedly going to state National Guard units.
(I don't recall seeing official documents stating this policy).

FWIW - I believe the CMP match rules allow some widening of the front-sight blade and enlargement of rear-sight apertures. You will have to find the rule and respect the 'limits'.

Remember that the model 1901 and model 1902 rear-sights require model specific hand-guards.

[bote]

Thanks, Butlersrangers. I reread the CMP rules and they allow a width of .100" so that will be a big help. Somehow my brain was thinking that .100" was the original width.

I'll probably shoot a "project" rifle that has a new Criterion barrel. Someone spent a bunch of $ on it before I bought it. All the metal has been blued; it's a pretty rifle. It's a model 1898 but has the early stock. I've got stocks and handguards and could "correct" it cosmetically for either sight but it shoots good the way it is so I'll leave it as is.

One of my 1902 model 1898s has a perfect barrel as far as I can tell. It shoots great also. The metal still has sharp tooling marks and the original oil-quenched case-hardened finish. Not as pretty as blueing but that's what they looked like I guess. I'd love to know it's history.

[butlersrangers]

I keep intending to make a replacement "Krag" blade, that follows the original profile, with about .100" thickness, and steps-down to .050" thickness, to fit into the slot of the base.

That original blade is getting mighty hard to see, under certain lighting conditions!

If you switch rear-sights on your 'Criterion' barrel, you will likely need 8-32 threaded screws and not original Krag model 1902 sight-screws to fit.

(I wish I had picked up a Criterion barrel from the CMP, when they had them. The CMP price was discounted).

My state rifle & pistol association was lax in sending a membership-card and my local sportsmans club is not an affiliate. (I should have joined the Ohio State Assn)!

[Whig]

I shoot with the M1901 rear sight exclusively on my Krag rifle I use the most with the peep sight on the raised leaf also.

Something I have not tried yet is to add a dab of orange paint on the tip of the front sight blade. I have found it easier to see by making sure that the front blade is clean and sharp. It is hard to pick up if you are shooting under a covered bench without good sunlight on the blade.

Paul Steinmayer has the most knowledge about the sight adjustments allowed at Camp Perry since he has been shooting there a lot in recent years. Maybe he can chime in if able. He said he has been trying to keep up with reading the KCA posts but has been busy with family priorities.

Hi, Paul!

[Cat Man]

As a long time target shooter I have conducted many training sessions with new and old shooters and have listened to their laments about problems seeing the military post front sight in target shooting.
It is extremally important to prepare the standard post front sight for shooting by making the front sight distinct, visible and very black. Applying various compounds and treatments to create a temporary dull black sight has been done on rifle ranges for the last 150 years! And it will make an amazing difference in the shooters ability to focus on the front post sight.

Before attempting to manufacture a larger wider front sight blade I would encourage you to try one the the sight black methods proven by generations of us old eyed shooters.

Two methods are still in use today. Birchwood markets an aerosol spray-on sight black product. It is convenient, not very expensive, easy to carry in your range kit and is not permanent and won't harm your rifle. Just give the sight a quick spray before shooting. Brush it and wipe it off when you are done for the day.

The other popular method is to use the flame of an old fashioned carbide burning miners lamp to deposit soot on the sight blade. Several commercial target equipment suppliers offer a pocket sized "Sight Smoker" for use on the range. I have used both methods and several brands of smokers over many ranges and prefer the carbide smoker. By observation, the carbide produces a better black and will provide a very sharp and distinct sight picture. The spray black is more convenient but by produces a less black grayish deposit. (Several USMC shooters showed me the difference at Camp Perry many years ago).

For old eyes, the long sight radius of the 30 inch Krag barrel makes it a favorite for me.


Jeff

The CAT Man

[butlersrangers]

The soot, produced by directing the flame of a carbide lamp on a sight-blade, is deep and non-reflective. It is perfect for the task.

The downside, of a Miner's Carbide Lamp for the job, is that it is a lot of 'stuff' and bother to 'blacken' just one sight. (ONE MORE THING TO CLEAN)!

Carbide Lamps consist of a water tank (on top), a 'drip-valve', and a bottom tank that holds the calcium-carbide in rock-like form. The dripping water slowly dissolves the carbide 'rocks', releasing acetylene gas. The gas vents through a jet, with a very fine orifice, to be ignited by the sparks of a friction-wheel & lighter-flint.

The acetylene ignites with a 'pop', producing a blinding white light. The flame is clean, unless something, like a front-sight, enters the burn. A foreign surface in the flame gets totally sooted.

There is a needle-valve that shuts off the flame, but, the carbide tank now contains a corrosive slurry. The lamp can be relit, during a few hours of use, but has to be emptied, flushed out, cleaned and dried, or corrosion begins within days.

Possibly, the more modern shooter specific unit, shown by 'Cat Man', is more maintenance free than the old fashion Miner's Lamp.

FWIW - A match and small candle can produce a nice heavy soot to blacken sights at a routine range session.

[Cat Man]

What a great photo of the vintage Krag shooters kit. Yes the modern smoker is small and easier to use. But it does require a quick cleaning after the shooting day is done.
They are a shooter "magnet" on the firing line. With a good flame going, your fellow shooters usually gather around and ask you to black their sights too. My fellow Krag shooters gather around me at the start of the match at Camp Perry for the sight smoking ceremony. Ask Paul S.

Jeff

[bote]

The vintage equipment is so cool. I've tried the spray-on sight gray and I agree it's not as good as the carbon. My company makes activated carbon. You can't see in a storage silo if there is the slightest amount suspended in the air. I'm told carbon "absorbs" light. Don't know the science but I've seen the results. I suspect that's why the carbon works so much better on the sight. I have a piece of plastic someone gave me that produces soot when burned. Doesn't work as well as the carbide lamp but pretty simple. I had a .100 wide front sight made for a 1903 which I really like. I've played around with applying carbon directly to the sight with mixed results.

I made the sight screws for the Criterion barrel from some hex-head screws. My Criterion barrel is also slightly larger in diameter than the original barrels and required some stock fitting. Criterion swore this was not possible and even sent me a drawing but the indicators and the stock don't lie.

[Cat Man]

Renowned target shooter Dr Walter Hudson in the small book Modern Rifle Shooting from the American Standpoint, talked about the Krag on the target range. The little book was published in 1903 (Laflin and Rand Powder). He explained blackening the sight by burning a lump of Camphor.
Dr Hudson says the camphor was difficult to ignite in windy conditions.

Anyone know what "A lump of Camphor" looks like?