Range report 1898 carbine

Ammunition, reloading, shooting, etc
larrys
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:01 pm

Range report 1898 carbine

Post by larrys »

Recently acquired from a long life in a dusty gun cabinet. See my thread in U.S. Krags. I acquired 100 rounds of new Winchester brass and a set of RCBS dies online, and spun up 20 rounds to function test. The load I used is 36.1 grains of IMR 4895 with a 150gr FMJBT head. My Sierra and Hornady books say that gives me 2200 fps. True to what I read here the spire points don't feed well through the magazine so I fed them one at a time. I'm only punching paper so who cares, I used what I have.
It sure is a purty thang!
purty thang small.jpg
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First ten rounds, it shot a foot high with the rear notch all the way down. I went to the peep sight and set it .050" below the 100 yd mark. After ten sighters here are shots eleven to fifteen.
record small.jpg
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Shots sixteen to twenty. Now I'm on it. Not used to the trigger, probably pulling right. Teeny peep sight causing the vertical string. Not bad for the first time out out. Function was 100% What's not to like?
record 2 small.jpg
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Best,
Larry

larrys
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: Range report 1898 carbine with questions

Post by larrys »

Not being real happy with the rifle shot I checked out a few things. As I have read here the bore size may be suspect. I poured a lead slug and mic'd it, and the bore measured .307-.308" so I think I'm okay there. I then checked how the receiver and barrel are bedded in the stock. I tightened the trigger guard screws as recommended here with the front one tight and the rear one snug. When I removed the front barrel band the front end of the stock pulled itself away from the barrel .050" or thereabout. Perhaps this is the issue? I have accurized a number of rifles in the past by glass bedding, trigger work, and metal fitting. Would it be acceptable to accurize this rifle or, being the pretty original piece that it is would I be committing sacrilege? It wouldn't bother me a bit to just leave it alone, but if it's okay to play with it I would.
TIA,
Larry

Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by Whig »

If the bore isn't smooth and devoid of rifling, it should be able to shoot better than what you show. I have never had to mess with loosening screws up front or back on the guard. But, I don't torque the screws too tight when I take down a rifle or carbine and reassemble it. I think it may take some time getting used to the sights. I like the M1901 rear sight with the ladder up and using the peep sight hole. But, I cannot use this for fast acquisition and timed shooting. Takes a few seconds to find the front sight through the peep!

Your front sight may need raised up some if you are shooting real high using the notch on the rear sight. The front sight blade and rear sight don't always match.

But, it does take time to find the right bullet and powder load for your Krag. That's part of the fun.

It is a pretty thing, though, as you show in your nice picture! Thanks.

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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by butlersrangers »

IMHO - Your Krag barrel should not lift 1/2 inch off the stock's barrel channel, when you remove the barrel-band.

It is not good for accuracy, if the barrel is exerting upward pressure against the barrel-band.
This likely creates problems & variation with barrel harmonics, when 'fired'.

You may have a situation where there is a high-spot in the Stock's wood inletting and the action is not sitting 'flat' on its bottom and may be rocking.
(This should easily be checked by trying the fit without the barrel-band and guard-screws).

Then again, maybe the rear guard-screw is just too tight and torquing the barrel upward.

(This is easily checked by loosening both guard-screws, with the barrel-band off. Wiggle or lightly tap the action so it 'bottoms' in the stock. Just tighten the front screw and determine if things look right, with the barrel laying in its channel).

Actually, many rifles seem to shoot best with a bit of upward pressure (of just a few pounds) of the stock 'tip', against the bottom of the barrel.

If there is an excessive gap, between the action tang and the stock wood, some thin washers could be tried.

larrys
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by larrys »

Butlersrangers, when the barrel band is removed, the barrel lifts up 50 thousandths of an inch, not 500 thousandths of an inch. Not as bad as you thought, but I think it can cause an issue with accuracy.

Whig, I am using the peep sight. It does take some seconds to acquire a sight picture. Sure wasn't used in battle! The peep sights on my P14 Enfield are a lot more practical. The bore is bright with crisp rifling. I did play with the the screws as you and Butlersrangers suggested. When I snug the front screw with the barrel band off, the barrel does come up the .050" away from the front of the stock. I have the skills to remedy the issue, my important question today is, would I damage the collector value of the rifle if I glass bedded the action, or removed some wood from the stock under the receiver to eliminate the 'rocking' of the barrel in the stock when the trigger guard screws are tightened? And yes, I need to play with loads to find the 'right one'. It is part of the fun!
Larry

FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by FredC »

butlersrangers wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:02 am IMHO - Your Krag barrel should not lift 1/2 inch off the stock's barrel channel, when you remove the barrel-band.

Hey BR, I made a decimal point mistake a few years ago when discussing something metric. You posted a picture of a nun holding a ruler to rap me across my knuckles. Remember that? If you look at Larry's post that is 50 thousands of an inch not a half inch. Wish I had time to find the picture for you. :-)
I found it, the new KCA search feature works good. http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.co ... 2335#p2335

Not sure if that changes things as to whether this needs to be addressed. I know a bad epoxy job can really mess things up on a Krag. Part of the problem with my sporter was caused by the fellow that worked on it doing a bad job bedding with epoxy before I got it. I eventually fixed things by doing a full bedding job with 3 separate pillars epoxied in but that was very difficult and I would not wish the job on my worst enemy.
Last edited by FredC on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by FredC »

Larry,
Maybe heavier and longer bullets are preferred by your carbine. The original throating was made for 220 grain round nose. Some of the members here Krags have done well with 165 grain slugs. You have really just begun to experiment with it, there are a lot of bullet weights and and velocities you have not tried yet. From watching this forum Krags can be very choosy as to what works best for them.

Occasionally a Krag likes really short bullets, BR posted a group not too long ago that was very small, done with 100 grain bullets or there abouts. I think that it was done with one of his Faux carbines.
Last edited by FredC on Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by Whig »

The real answer to your question about whether bedding the receiver or barrel or shaving some of the stock to allow the barrel to seat better would affect the collector's value of the Krag is "yes". Keep in mind that a military surplus rifle or carbine such as the Krag has the most value, regardless of other features, when it is in the condition closest to when it first left the Springfield Armory. Anything done to it after that point generally lessens the value.

Taking that into consideration, much discussion has ensued regarding the numerous hands, screwdrivers, Dremels, hammers, saws, gun smiths, etc., many (most) of these Krags have seen or been through since they first left the armory. Bubba has owned many of these rifles and Bannermans and other places have altered many, also.

If your Krag is not in original AND correct military condition, chances are that it has had parts replaced and other work done to it. Therefore, any small and visually un-obvious changes you make are probably not going to hurt the real value much.

Also, it is your property and you can do with it as you please!

Many of us die-hard military collectors shiver at the thought, or consideration, of permanently altering a good Krag. But, many of us have also repaired and changed some of our Krags to fix them or make them more functional or more correct as Krags, if there was some kind of damage.

So, go easy with it and do a cosmetically good job and most of us probably won't say too much!

Keep us informed.

FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by FredC »

I decided to put the link here as it may be overlooked in the earlier post. The 110 grain bullets that light worked so well for BR:http://kragcollectorsassociation.com/vi ... 454#p36454

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butlersrangers
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Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Range report 1898 carbine

Post by butlersrangers »

Fred: You 'ratted me out'. I now have an appointment to see Sister Mary of the Decimal, on Monday, to receive my consequences for past transgressions and miscalculations. I am sure the penance for my misfractions will be sizeable.

In regard to Larry's nice carbine stock, I would not use epoxy bedding.
I would 'smoke' the action area, around the front action-screw/receiver ring/ barrel chamber, with some burning candle soot. I would put the barreled-action in the stock and rock it a bit. Soot will rub off on the wood 'high spots'.
I would use a small sharp carving chisel or wood scraper to work down the high spots & repeat the process until the action sits flat and the .05000" barrel rise is eliminated.
(My hunch is that the "high spot" is where the receiver ring sits in the stock).

Don't use a Dremel Tool!
A sharp hand tool, going slow and checking progress will cure the problem and cause no harm or loss of value.
Last edited by butlersrangers on Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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