Problem with chambering new brass

[Parashooter]

If you would like to avoid some significant expense, consider "bumping" the shoulders of your cases down by running them into a .308 Win. sizer die just far enough to chamber easily. Probably wouldn't take much.

This comes to mind because I once did a similar exercise with a .303 British case to demonstrate some observations about the old "case stretching forward when fired" myth.

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[FredC]

I had forgotten about the vice marks. I like the theory that a scrap barrel was installed by Stokes or other. If reamed by the armory with a chipped reamer then delegated to the scrap bin would explain a lot. Looking at the bolt I did not see a whole lot of wear. Some lots of brass were shorter on the shoulder dimension at one time and may have chambered with little difficulty. After the previous owners ran out of that brass this thing got stuck in the back of the closet as most later brass would not chamber.

Parashoote'rs idea of moving the shoulder back on a bunch of cases for use here gets you shooting right now. When you find a better barrel the temporary fix brass will fire form to the regular dimensions with probably no losses.

Replacing a barrel is not a difficult procedure. Butlersrangers has a thread about doing it yourself, if you do not want to buy the tools to do it your self it should be a minimal cost operation for a gunsmith.

Our ideas of a ring of brass from a cartridge failure or a partially removed weld were long shots. I am not a welder and someone sticking a welding rod that far in and making a weld without a bunch of voids seemed rather difficult.

[Zac952]

Well thank you all for the help and I will likely bump the shoulder back and fire some rounds to see how it shoots, if it is accurate then I will likely see about fixing the chamber, if it is not then I will look at another barrel. I will update this thread as to how it shoots. Unfortunately it seems as if no gunsmith around me will work on Krags, I often do much of my own work but was hoping to avoid buying a reamer if possible, although I never feel too bad about purchasing tools, I just am on a wife imposed budget lol

[butlersrangers]

FWIW: Springfield Armory had approximately 30 steps in the manufacture of a barrel, from a blank of steel to a fully finished barrel, that was "clocked" to screw on to a finished receiver.

As I understand the manufacturing process, the barrel was "proofed" before it was rifled and the chamber was finished. These proof cartridges had different dimensions than the .30-40.

The "P" mark and "index" mark were put on the barrel at an intermediate stage in its manufacture.

IMHO - If a barrel was rejected by Springfield Armory, at a late stage in its manufacture, it is quite conceivable the barrel would have sight-holes and markings when it was scrapped.

We Know that concerns like Bannerman's, Stokes-Kirk, and Sedgley bought Armory parts and scrap at auction and made complete 'parts guns' for the civilian market.

This is my best 'take' on the near unexplainable!

"Parashooter" has offered an excellent solution to shape brass to fit this odd chambered Krag. That the OP intends to use it for 'cast-bullet' reloads makes this a very practical route to go.

[Zac952]

Thanks butlersrangers for the knowledge and history on these krag rifles, I have always had a interest in them and happy to have finally gotten one, if I rebarrel it should I restore it to original military configuration with a new stock or keep it as is?
I will likely be adding another one to my safe in the future, not sure whether I want a carbine or a rifle yet but original military configuration for sure.

[butlersrangers]

'Zac952' - If this were my Krag, I would use parashooter's technique and test out its accuracy as a cast-bullet rig.

It is kind of neat as a "short rifle" and should be a fun shooter with "bumped" cartridge cases.

IMHO - Restoring it to a full length Krag is not economically viable. There is no point in putting sizeable money into this Krag. Krag parts are very expensive and projects can easily become "money pits".

Any more money invested in this Krag is a loss. Better to save the money and snag a correct Krag, when one comes along.

Don't lose sight of the fact that you are learning much and having fun!

[Zac952]

Alright so I tried bumping the shoulder back to see how it would work, no matter how far I bumped the shoulder I still got some drag on the bolt handle. So this is really weird, checked the bolt face and some brass rubbing on it. Well I found a place that rents gunsmith tools, 4D reamers in Kalispell MT so I rented go/no go gauges a 30/40 krag reamer and T handle extension.
Checked it with go gauge and the bolt wouldn't even start to close on it.
So I started reaming slowly being sure to pull the reamer, brush the shavings off, clean the chamber of shavings then checking with guages and cases, relube the reamer and start again, MidwayUSA has a great video on chambering a rifle, finally getting no more shoulder deformation and then a little more and the go guage will close tightly. Left it here slightly tight as it will work my brass less but still freely chamber my reloads.
Problem solved it was very short chambered, not sure how it got that way or if possibly it was never chambered and stokes kirk chambered it or what but now it chambers a go guage, will not close on a no go guage and doesn't crush cases, chamber cast looks good too!

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[butlersrangers]

'Zac952' - Well done you! Your experience has taught us all.
Now, we await a Range Report on how your 'short' rifle performs?

I don't recall this problem scenario ever coming up before on the KCA forum.

You have documented and given us a mystery to ponder for years:
"How did a short chambered Krag barrel get out of Springfield Armory"?

[Zac952]

Use load data within at your own risk, this is not a recommended load, details of load within to describe a condition with my rifle. Didn't do an accuracy test today as it is too rainy to go out shooting, but what I was able to do is test fire a few rounds, so my load was 39 grains of IMR 4350 under a Sierra 180 grain bullet, fairly low pressure, what I did observe is a .015 thousandth primer backing out, as the rims of Graf brass measure out at .050 this seems to be about the .064 saami spec for rim distance. I have had light loads in 300 savage also do this to about the same extent. Doesn't seem to me to be a problem as with higher pressure loads the brass will set back reseating the primer. 3 rounds fired and all have this same primer backing out
Just curious if this is common with any of your Krags?

[FredC]

If your Graf cases are indeed .050 on the rim thickness they are out of SAAMI specs. They should be .054 to .064 thick. That said if Graf corrected the bevel on the outside they will be hard to measure with calipers or a micrometer. I have 2 bags of Graf cases purchased during the last ammo shortage. The bevel on the outside of the rim is not as large as Remington or Winchester cases and over the years we have figured out this can case the rims to lock when feeding if the cases are not loaded correctly. I did measure 4 cases with the rig in the photo that I have used before. Those are Graf cases in the attached photo. This rig will give accurate measurements even if the bevel is correct or the rim is slightly tapered near the edge. The case on the gauge measured almost .061 on the fixture but .059 with a mike. If you want to send me some cases I can measure them for you. These 4 cases measured 2 at .059, 1 at .060 and one at almost .061. When I measured a pile of Remington years ago most were between .061 and .063. When I found one that was .063+ I used it to set my head space at .065 with a dial indicator on the receiver.