Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Ammunition, reloading, shooting, etc
Zac952
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 am

Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by Zac952 »

Bad availability? Too expensive? Want to reduce wear on that barrel? Well here is a thread on how I fix all of those problems and not have to wear out a bore brush scrubbing that lead out.
So first off use whatever Mold brand you like, any style whether grooved, microgrooved, or even grooveless, if it works in your rifle traditional lubed or aloxed it will work in your rifle powdercoated. Yes I said powdercoated!
I have used Lyman, Lee, and NOE. I love all of them but NOE stands above the others in both fit and finish and quality of material. They offer both aluminum and brass, the aluminum is much harder and more durable than Lee, although I still use many Lee molds.
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Here is a NOE mold it is their version of a lyman design so there is a lot of load data out there for it, it is offered in both gas check and non gas check designs or both in one mold, and offered in 2, 3, 4, and 5 cavities. This is a 2 cavity non gas check as with powder coating you can push non gas check bullets much harder then you traditionally would.
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I drop my bullets directly from the mold into a container with an old shirt and water, this will water quench your bullets and harden them,
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I then put them out to dry well I inspect them
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Once dry and inspected put them and a tablespoon of powdercoating into an old Costco mixed nut container and replace the lid and swirl them in the container for about a minute I prefer eastwood ford dark blue powder but check out Elvis ammo on YouTube for other recommendations.
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Dump them in a wire basket, this one I made from hardware cloth, and shake the excess powder onto a paper bag for reuse later. Notice slight bare lead showing through the powder, don't worry this will fill in.
Last edited by Zac952 on Sat May 01, 2021 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zac952
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 am

Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by Zac952 »

Put them in a toaster oven on 400 for 20 minutes
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Now pull them from the toaster oven and put the whole basket in water, ice water not necessary but I use it to have a consistent water temp regardless of season. This will reharden them as the heat will remove some of the treatment from earlier.
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Now to size them, with powdercoating you don't need any lube in your sizer, if your sizing down a large amount leave them damp and oil your sizing die afterward. The water acts like a lube without leaving residue on your bullets.
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you can use a regular lubesizer also just back off the lube plunger a few turns.
Powdercoated bullets will not foul your barrel with lead and won't gunk up your seating die, you can push them harder and if you have a large groove diameter it will add .001 to .0015 to your as cast bullets, then they can be left unsized if you have a .311 groove
Worried about the coating being flaked off well going down the barrel? Grab a hammer take a couple outside and flatten them! Notice the powder coating flattens and expands on the lead staying well adhered.
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Enjoy saving money, being easier on your barrel, without the mess of lead. I know some traditionalists will be driven mad by the blue bullets, but check out powderbythepound clear to have that traditional look, or use gray powder to replicate that weathered bullet look. Many colors work well so you can be creative and use them to identify different loads at a glance.
Also when baked in a basket like I shown they will have small specs of lead showing where they were touching each other or the basket,
in my testing this doesn't effect accuracy or fouling but if you would like you can also stack them on their bases for a more uniform look.
Last edited by Zac952 on Sun May 02, 2021 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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butlersrangers
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Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by butlersrangers »

'Zac952' - Thanks for the information and explanation. What lead alloy do you use?

Zac952
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 am

Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by Zac952 »

Well it is exceptionally hard to acquire now but I had found about 500lbs of Wheelweights when helping a friend haul off junk, so I kept the wheelweights and got into casting, newer wheelweights seem to be be mostly zinc and steel depending on the area, but it is about 12bhn air cooled and about 20bhn water quenched, these are estimates as I have no tester but that is comparing them to commercial bullets with a stated bhn. The nice thing is with powdercoating you can get away with slightly softer bullets and a bhn of 12-15 if fit correctly it seems to do well for me up to about 1800fps, at least that is as hard as iv pushed it. Wrecked sailboats supposedly are a goldmine for a lifetime supply of lead, well I guess they are a "leadmine" then you can sweeten that lead with alloys from rotometels or scrounged alloys.
So I currently use wheelweights but am looking for other sources as my supply dwindles

waterman
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Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by waterman »

The bullet from the NOE mould looks to be a flat-base version of 311284, at least IIRC. NOE makes good moulds, so you have the proper tools. That should be successful if you keep velocities down. The real test of your bullets shows up in closely bunched holes in paper.

But you have a bunch of variables going at once, not the least of which is a Stokes-Kirk barrel from who knows what.

The boys & girls who shoot tight groups with cast bullets avoid wheel weights like a STD. No telling what's in them and some of the metals will tend to contaminate the walls of your lead pot to the point that you may never be able to produce really excellent bullets from it. One of my life lessons learned is just say no to dental or x-ray lab lead. The plastic coating is flammable.

Zac952
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 am

Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by Zac952 »

The biggest advantage of powdercoating is the reduction of fouling, in my S&W 69 I shot 150 429-421 250gr over 24.4gr of H110 "use at your own risk as there are many variables" and they chronograph at 1235fps and my barrel was cleaned with only patches, no brushing at all. Accuracy in all of my handguns has been excellent, but if you are going benchrest or competition try controlling all the variables better using a known alloy such as lyman 2, hardball, or linotype. Hardness consistency has much to do with accuracy of cast bullets so using a known alloy is a must. Waterquenching is a newer concept but it all my testing it increases hardness significantly and the bullets will gain hardness through about 1 month. From my research it seems hardness will degrade slowly after about a year, but very slowly like 1bhn in the first 5 years.
So if benchrest is more your thing I recommend Lyman #2 air-cooled, sized and traditionally lubed with lyman ideal, and slug your bore and size for 1 to 2 thousandths over groove diameter, closer to 2 if bore size is larger then 40 caliber.
But the majority of my shooting is done standing and 4 inches at 100 yards with a rifle is acceptable so I save time on cleaning with powdercoating and money with scrounged alloys. Off course I shoot for within 2 inches if I'm going to be hunting with that load, but I use Nosler Accubonds for that.
Good shooting to you!

madsenshooter
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Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by madsenshooter »

I got in on the first NOE/castboolits group buy for that mold, just a two cavity, one cavity with a hollow point pin. I have some of them loaded, enough for a 50rd match, I think. There's one of those coming up, but no sense in getting a zero with the Krag, no Roosevelt match this year. I'd shoot them in the Vintage match at Camp Perry, but I can't see a front sight! One thing I didn't like about that first mold was that they cast the nose with a waist, the sides of the borerider weren't parallel. Same diameter at the ogive and cleaner groove, but a bit smaller in the middle. NOE traced that back to the pretty venting. It's no big deal, gives the lead the lands and grooves are moving a place to go and I doubt there is any effect on accuracy. Just something I noted and they fixed.

Zac952
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 am

Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by Zac952 »

NOE molds seem to be top quality in my opinion, Lee molds and lyman molds I'm often stoning the sprue plate to remove burs so they don't gouge the top of the mold blocks. I haven't received a single mold from NOE that needed any adjustment. Although I do love steel mold blocks I seem to get along fine with the NOE aluminum. I still purchase and use a lot of lyman molds but with the shortages on both Lyman and Lee I keep adding more and more NOE molds to my collection simply because they are in stock! Let alone very high quality. I have only been casting for a few years now but wish I had gotten into it much sooner, it seemed inferior or difficult and time consuming but after getting into it I realized it is one of my favorite parts of the reloading process.

Zac952
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 am

Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by Zac952 »

Got out and shot a 10 shot group today at 100 yards sitting with my powder coated cast bullets
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Any inaccuracy here is mostly me and could tighten up quite a bit on a bench or laying down.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Cast bullets in the 21st century

Post by butlersrangers »

That is very promising Krag shooting!

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