From IAA site

Ammunition, reloading, shooting, etc
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FredC
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Re: From IAA site

Post by FredC »

Howdy DR,
How is the term sub caliber used over there? I think of the 22 rimfire Krag training rifles, a sabot loading or a 25/40 maybe. The ammo in question looks like 30 caliber. Maybe the term means slightly reduced load with a more aerodynamic slug for long distance shooting?

Interesting situation, if you had a couple of boxes of the said ammo opening one up to see what is inside would be no problem. With only one in hand and as rare as hen's teeth no way I would do that.

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butlersrangers
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Re: From IAA site

Post by butlersrangers »

I believe the mentioned "sub-caliber" (device) refers to a Krag barreled-action adapted to fit into a breech-loading artillery piece.

This allowed cheap training practice and simulation, using a rifle cartridge rather than an artillery round.

Later .30-40 ammunition, that used 150 to 180 grain spitzer bullets, would have offered ballistic superiority over the early ammunition with 'round-nosed' 220 grain projectiles.
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Doubly Reincarnated
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Re: From IAA site

Post by Doubly Reincarnated »

Long ago when I was waterman, I posted that in Dec. 1961, I was a young sailor assigned to inventory small arms ammunition at Lualualei Naval Ammunition Depot. I was surprised to find .30-40 Krag ammo (commercial Winchester cases) loaded with what appeared to be M-1 or maybe M-2 bullets for the .30-06. I asked what they were for and was told about sub-caliber inserts for large guns.

FredC
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Re: From IAA site

Post by FredC »

Well, that makes sense. So these specials may not be quite as rare as hen's teeth.

It is coming back to me now, I think these were mentioned in a post sometime back. Did not remember the spitzer projectiles though. Maybe loaded with the spitzer/boattail, the trajectory better matched the artillery shell? Or there were no more surplus round points left?

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butlersrangers
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Re: From IAA site

Post by butlersrangers »

I imagine the spitzer bullets feeding through the Krag magazine wasn't a big issue. These "sub-caliber" devices may have just been operated as single-shots.

IIRC - Some of the boxed WW-1 era .30-40 ammo used 'spitzer' projectiles. (Why mess with or make the old 220 grain RN stuff)?

(The "sub-caliber" device picture, that I posted, is of a relic that was found buried at Bannerman's Island Arsenal).

[See "U.S. Military Krags"] - I 'bumped' an old thread, from back in 2017, that was about a Krag "carbine" with no serial number.
The action proved to be from one of these artillery devices. The action was not fully machined and was 'carved into' a real carbine stock, probably by a surplus dealer.

Doubly Reincarnated
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Re: From IAA site

Post by Doubly Reincarnated »

I would imagine that the sub-caliber devices were only used as single shots. Spotting hits between shots would have been a primary part of training pointers & trainers.

I had a 96 made into a sporter by Bannerman at the time. Still do. I was afraid to use any of that sub-caliber ammo. It was probably OK, but I didn't know it at the time.

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butlersrangers
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Re: From IAA site

Post by butlersrangers »

FWIW - "Sub-Caliber" .30-40 ammo must have been loaded to Krag pressures. Gun Crew members would have been in the proximity of the 'lanyard-fired' Krag action.

Brophy included a second type of "sub-caliber device", in his book, "The Krag Rifle". It bolted externally to a 'quick fire gun' and was fired by an electric solenoid.
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FredC
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Re: From IAA site

Post by FredC »

Link to thread were sub caliber devices was discussed: viewtopic.php?p=27492#p27492

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