Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

U.S. Military Krags
Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Knute1 »

Here is the rest.
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butlersrangers
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by butlersrangers »

I think you have an early 'high-hump' model 1896 rear-sight.

The "Proof P" looks double and I think there is a letter stamped on the tip of the 'clearing-rod groove' filler.

Lovely Rifle!

Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Knute1 »

I'm not sure why the "P" has a ghost double. Did the hammer bounce? Was it applied twice?"
I am not sure what is above the "P".
The indention in the cleaning rod filler end looks just like it does in the picture. Doesn't appear to be a character I am familiar with if it is intentional.
The barrel has some good bluing on it, making me suspect that a previous owner may have fooled with it. The bore is good. Also, the buttplate screws are nicely blued and may be replacements. I have a 1896 sporter with the original screws. Do I dare swap them out?

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butlersrangers
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by butlersrangers »

'Knute1' - Your Krag was at Springfield Armory for work applying the model 1896 updates.

It likely would have been taken apart to update and refurbish parts.

The stock that is now on it had the 'ram-rod channel' filled, and was likely scraped, sanded, and refinished.

When all the parts were assembled into a complete rifle, it would have been tested for function and fired.

A new "Proof P" would have been stamped on the stock since the work was done at the armory.

Earlier stock markings would remain. They would likely be faint due to sanding and scraping. There was no need for a new 'Acceptance Cartouche', since the arm had already been accepted.

FWIW - This mark on your stock tip looked like a letter (probably just an illusion).Image

Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Knute1 »

I'm with you on everything you said, butlersranger. That would explain the double "P".

I purposely shown the end of the forestock to show that the cleaning rod fill was round bottom versus the later square bottom fill-in.

So what I'm trying to figure out is why the cartouche is dated 1896 (in the the right light it does end with 6). The serial number indicates it was built in September/October of 1895. Would it be possible as Dick suggests (if I understand one of his earlier posts) that before the gun was issued from the armory that it was held to perform the updates? When did this inspector's initials start showing up in 1896?

Thanks for everyone's responses.

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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Dick Hosmer »

My 20197, spitting image of yours except that it was not converted, has an 1896 rear sight and 1896 cartouche. I believe that Mallory states that rifles made in late 1895 were held in partially finished condition waiting for the new rear sights.

Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Knute1 »

So if I got this right (within reason):
This is a Model 1892 Magazine Rifle.
The receiver was made in 1894 and is so marked.
It was built in September/October 1895.
It was possibly held up for a Model 1896 rear sight.
After the sight installation it would have then received the 1896 cartouche and then issued.
It would have then returned later to the Springfield Armory for other Model 1896 updates including the buttplate with trapdoor, filling in of the cleaning rod channel, replacement of the ejector for the hold open on the bolt, crowned the barrel, installation of a longer upper fore end, etc.
After the updates were performed it would have been proof-tested and stamped for a second time with the "P".

Mark_Daiute
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Mark_Daiute »

I t was born an 1892 and was upgraded to an 1896 at which time it got the 1896 rear sight. I don't think it was held back awaiting the 1896 sight.

My .02.

Knute1
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by Knute1 »

Perhaps you are right, I don't know if there is clear evidence. I was just going off what Dick Hosmer replied about his rifle having the 1896 sight and cartouche, but no other 1896 updates. His rifle serial number is 118 less than mine. At that time they were making about 120 rifles per day. So it is likely his was made a day or two ahead of mine. I'm just trying to just figure out why the cartouche is 1896. It may be a completely made up, altered gun with no significance of whatever dates are on it. But I am not going to challenge Dick Hosmer.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Model 1892 to 1896 Krag Jorgensen

Post by butlersrangers »

Your Krag had to have been taken apart for some of that 'update' work.

Springfield Armory likely put your current 'updated/refurbished' stock on your rifle.
But, it is not likely that your current stock is the original 'wood' on your rifle.

IMHO - your cartouche date is kind of irrelevant.

Of special interest to me is Knute's rear-sight. It appears it could be the 'high-hump' early version of the model 1896 sight. Also shown is the more common 'low hump' leaf-hinge.ImageImage

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