New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

U.S. Military Krags
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swissguy
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:21 pm

New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by swissguy »

New member introduction from NW Switzerland.. I've been lurking here a bit after I found out the shop has one and did some research. So.. I literally just returned from the gun shop with a Model 1898 and signed up ;) it's in very nice shape and I believe it's been made in 1903. It's in about the same condition as my K11 and K31. Some of the screw heads are messed up a bit unfortunately though. I'm no stranger to older rifles, a Kropatschek and a Swiss 1889 Vetterli (converted to centerfire) are among my collection. The ammo for these is also made in-house.. looking forward to some good exchange!

FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by FredC »

Welcome to the KCA. We will enjoy pictures when you get around to it. There are so many combinations of correct sights that can be on your Krag. Members here will be able to tell you a lot of interesting things about your particular Krag. Gunsmiths and others have special files for cleaning up abused slotted screws. Probably the first thing I would do till you get some good replacements. Would figure the Swiss are less restrictive about importing brass and reloading supplies. We sometimes export industrial supplies to Europe. Shipping costs are fairly high but the weight of the items we make is very low. Thus consolidating everything you need or want into one shipment will reduce your costs.

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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by butlersrangers »

'swissguy' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. Now you need a (Schmidt-Rubin inspired) U.S. Krag bayonet for your U.S. rifle!

BTW - You can use a 7.5 X 55mm-Swiss Resizing Die to 'Neck-Size' .30-40 Krag or .303 British cartridge cases to make ammunition for your rifle.

We all enjoy pictures of Krags.

swissguy
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:21 pm

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by swissguy »

Thanks for the warm welcome! Pictures will be below :) Importing brass into Switzerland requires an import license.. it doesn't matter if I'd like to import from the US or the EU, so I'm left with forming brass from .303 which I've been collecting for the when the day comes. We can get pretty much anything without a pile of paperwork or money involved inside the country (including everything you would call NFA items) but imports have become a bit more labor intensive. Luckily there are some gun shops that offer imports as a service. It's just a question of how much money you want to throw at it in the end.
Thanks for the tip with the 7.5 Swiss die! That will definitely prolong the case life. I hear the .303 is a bit too short after the forming but I guess it's still fine. Btw, the bore is surprisingly good!

So, here's the pictures:
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butlersrangers
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Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by butlersrangers »

'Swissguy' - That is a nice looking U.S. Model 1898 Krag-Jorgensen rifle.
Your rifle, #440994, would have been assembled at Springfield Armory around March, 1903.

You have the model 1901 'Buffington' style rear-sight, which is quite nice for target shooting, (with young eyes).
Your stock and hand-guard are American black-walnut.

It would be interesting to know how this rifle made its way to Switzerland?

Helpful hints: When you disassemble your rifle, the front barrel-band can be left on. The front sight-blade has to be removed to get the front band off of the barrel.

The pin that holds the front-blade in its base was slightly tapered. It is normally removed by driving it left to right. The left tip was slightly upset or 'mushroomed' at the Armory.
The pin is soft steel. A new pin can easily be made from a steel nail, by reducing in diameter and cutting to length.

Krag hand-guards are fragile. To remove one, leave it in place until the stock and rear-sight are taken off the barreled-action. Then the hand-guard can be slid forward toward the font-sight.
The barrel taper allows easy removal near the front-sight. (A thin film of solvent on the barrel allows the 'spring-clips' to slide easily).
Re-assemble your Krag by reversing the process. (Slide, Don't 'Snap', the hand-guard on and off the barrel. Old hand-guards are brittle).

Store a loose Krag hand-guard with Quarter and Penny size coins, twisted in the 'spring-clips', to counter-act the spring pressure on the wood.

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King carp
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:43 am

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by King carp »

That's a nice looking Krag. I have had good luck using cast bullets in my Krags. So this might be an option to consider.

swissguy
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:21 pm

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by swissguy »

I've been wondering myself how this got into the country.. an anecdote: a friend of mine has an Enfield Sniper in it's wooden box, complete with scope and all the accessories and the box still has the label from the airline tied to it with which it entered the country in 1962. Someone found it on holidays in the UK and brought it back home..

Thanks for the info on the manufacture date, I had a hard time figuring out the stock cartouche but could barely make out "1903". I had the rifle apart already except the front sight blade though. I was more interested to see the condition under the stock if there was any rust and I'm pleased that there is is none. I believe though that there had been some work done on the stock at least due to the condition of the cartouche.

The sights are really one of a kind, I agree. Even here someting is unheard of/unseen even in our shooting culture. There are K31s with diopter sights, yes, but you still see people with plain open sight rifles on the 300m ranges holding at least the 9 ring. It seems to be more like a nice target- than a go-to-war rifle. Especially, when I read the section on sights and the use thereof found at https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-con ... manual.pdf it's more a calculation I would like to do on the range rather than in the field under fire.

Re casting, I do have a 200 grs mold I will try and powdercoat/gas check the bullet :)

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butlersrangers
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Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by butlersrangers »

The challenge with the Krag sights is caused by the very thin front-sight blade.
I have to wear weak 'reading' glasses (as shooting glasses) to bring the sights into sharp focus.

In regard to your U.S. 'Acceptance Cartouche':
The initials in your faint 'cartouche' are likely a stylized "J.S.A.", in script, over the 1903 acceptance date.
These are the initials of Joseph Sumner Adams, Assistant-Foreman of the Springfield Armory - Assembly Shop.
(The JSA is found on nearly all U.S. Krags, except for the "S.W.P." cartouche, for Samuel W. Porter, found only on the earliest U.S. model 1892 rifles).

There are some original Krag stocks that never received a cartouche. These are commonly believed to be spare stocks, that were put on at the Armory, at an arsenal, at a depot, or in the Field.
If the replacement happened at a well equipped facility, a "Circled P" indicating function proofing was stamped on the stock to the rear of the trigger-guard.

Nearly all U.S. Krags went back to the Armory or an arsenal, for 'rebuilding' or at least inspection & rear-sight updates, during the course of their service life.

For such work, many Krags were disassembled. Serviceable parts were refinished, if necessary. Stocks were skillfully scraped to remove surface blemishes and finish was renewed.

The techniques for making stocks look "new" resulted in original stamped markings and sharp wood edges becoming faint or rounded.
Since this was 'officially done', it is quite acceptable to Krag enthusiasts. Krags had a longer service use than many people realize.

Attached photos show: an 1896 'script' J.S.A. stamp and a later 'block' one - struck on top of an earlier stamp. (The "over-strike" is unusual and probably done during 'W.W.1 period' rebuilding efforts).
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cartouche update.jpg
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Doubly Reincarnated
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:51 am

Re: New member intro, 1st time Krag owner

Post by Doubly Reincarnated »

Welcome to this bit of madness. I also have a Kropatschek (8x60R) and shoot the thing. I make the cases in my home workshop, about as complicated as anything I have yet encountered. The Krag is much more fun. Have you thought of having cases made from solid brass rod stock, such as the RMC company makes in the US? With light loads and cast bullets, they would be satisfactory for ranges of 300m or less.

My thoughts about the Krag: Militaries adopt rifles which seem best suited for the last war that impressed their leadership. After 1914-1918, self-loading rifles became the seldom achieved goal. After 1939-1945, self-loading rifles had to have greater ammunition capacity. Long-range accuracy was not as important as short-range firepower and we went from the 63mm case to the short 7.62x51 mm case to the 5.6 mm case. The Middle East and Afghan adventures have led to more changes.

In the US, military thought and tactics in the early 1890s was still dominated by our 1861-1865 internal war, fought mostly with black powder and muzzle loaders. The leadership failed to learn much from the post-1865 fighting with the indigenous bands defending their home territories, brief engagements fought at short range. Smokeless powder was forced on the military by European developments. The Krag was a smokeless powder repeater intended for the Army of the Potomac.

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