You don't see this everyday.

U.S. Military Krags
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butlersrangers
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You don't see this everyday.

Post by butlersrangers »

The attached photos are of a damaged model 1898 Krag, serial number 170493, that is in the 'National Firearms Collection of the Smithsonian' and viewable online.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collectio ... s/military

This link will take you to a site with a few hundred pages of military items. If you 'filter' by selecting firearms, there are about 30 pages of guns.

If you specify 'Krag-Jorgensen rifle' in the search box, there are about 19 items.
Some of the firearms are amazing, and some of the guns are obviously messed up or mislabeled.

Regrettably, there is no good description, context, details or 'back story' on the firearms that are displayed online.

The Smithsonian has around 7,000 firearms. Only around 150 or 2% are on public display, scattered through various branches and affiliates of the Smithsonian.
About 1/2 of the Smithsonian's displayed arms are loaned to the Cody Museum in Wyoming.

(Probably only around 500 Smithsonian guns are viewable online, with no present plans to increase the number).

I checked Krag serial number 170493 against the appendix tables of my copy of Mallory's "Krag Rifle Story".
There were four entries (!):
98R 07-20-00 Co. D 26th USV INF (Battle Loss)
98R 06-07-01 OCO (Sent by Capt. R. S. Griswold)
98R 07-15-99 26th USV INF (Issued)
98R 11-21-99 Balangtan , Panay, P.I. (Recov)

Well, old #170493 was assembled around February 1899.
The 1899 stock 'cartouche' and the cracked wood give some credibility to the stock being original and present on the rifle, when a mishap occurred.
(The 1902 era carbine handguard and 1901 rear-sight appear totally out of place to me).
I wonder if the rifle was fired with a bore obstruction and rearward gases blew the side-plate, cracked the receiver and stock?
Attachments
smithsonian damaged Krag-1edit.png
smithsonian damaged Krag-1edit.png (704.66 KiB) Viewed 1505 times
smithsonian damaged Krag-3.png
smithsonian damaged Krag-3.png (481.31 KiB) Viewed 1505 times
smithsonian damaged Krag-2edit.png
smithsonian damaged Krag-2edit.png (762.75 KiB) Viewed 1505 times
smithsonian damaged Krag-4.png
smithsonian damaged Krag-4.png (230.51 KiB) Viewed 1505 times

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butlersrangers
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by butlersrangers »

I brightened the Smithsonian photograph to get a better look at the mischief.

Whatever caused the 'EVENT', it appears the rifle's Stock was split in front and behind the magazine box.
Part of the Bolt-Wall is missing. We can see a partial view of the Firing-Pin Body (large circular-hole) above the jagged Bolt metal.
The single locking-lug and bolt-rib held!

I bet the original handguard was damaged. It would be interesting to view the barrel.

Someone once knew the whole story on this Krag; it could still lie 'buried' in the Smithsonian's collection files or in Springfield Armory archives.

Second photo shows the approximate area of bolt body that 'blew out' (taking the side-plate with it).
Possibly, Mr. Krag and Mr. Jorgensen planned this in the action's design, a weak path to vent high pressure gases, for safety?
Attachments
smithsonian damaged Krag-1 (2).png
smithsonian damaged Krag-1 (2).png (477.63 KiB) Viewed 1447 times
IMG_9075.JPG
IMG_9075.JPG (118.55 KiB) Viewed 1447 times

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butlersrangers
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by butlersrangers »

When this event occurred, I wonder if the magazine-gate was blown 'open' by high pressure gases venting out of the receiver?

Right-side of action shows no obvious damage, but the photo is shadowy and lacks clarity. The extractor seems positioned unusually high.
Attachments
Smithsonian damaged krag1898 right-side (2).png
Smithsonian damaged krag1898 right-side (2).png (208.57 KiB) Viewed 1433 times

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King carp
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by King carp »

Its too bad that there is no explanation to how the damage occurred on that Krag. It was put in the smithsonian for some reason. I wonder if it was possible that an enemy round entered the barrel and caused the damage? I have seen a few examples of this in civil war rifles in collections.

FredC
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by FredC »

Looking at the photos it made me ask how different would a Krag look that was run over by a truck. Bent receiver might pop out the side cover. My sporter got its sporter stock because of being leaned up against a truck that was driven off. Crack on the receiver threads could happen with the less noisy accident also. Not saying this happened here but could happen sometime and look somewhat similar.

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butlersrangers
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by butlersrangers »

Like the Sheriff says in Fargo: "I have to disagree a bit with your Police Work, Normie".

I believe the bolt 'blow-hole' shows high pressures got inside the bolt-body. Look how the bolt metal peels outward.

If we could handle it, we would know 'tons' more!

FredC
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by FredC »

I see what I think you are calling the blow hole. Looks too round to have failed making that clean of a circle. Looked at my bolts and they have a much smaller hole on top when the bolt is closed. If that is a drilled hole and it vented as shown in the photo the damage to the receiver looks correct for that conclusion. Never seen an early bolt did they have a drilled hole there?
Did not see any gas cutting on the end of the firing pin, I guess the primer could have held while something else turned loose. More photos or hands on would yield more clues like you said. Looked on the barrel for evidence of swelling and could not see any, but there is something that looks like a crack in the stock halfway between the barrel bands.

Your suggestion of a plugged barrel would be different than an overcharge of pistol powder. Could be the best explanation.

Run over by a truck or tank surely happened once in a while, maybe they were not interesting enough to keep.

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butlersrangers
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by butlersrangers »

Fred, I am not talking about the perfectly round hole. That hole is found on all Krag firing-pins. It is a step in the manufacture of the firing-pin body. This cross-hole is not a gas vent.

(Remember, the Krag firing-pin attaches to a 'doll's-head' shape at the tip of the striker-rod. This attachment uses part of the machined 'cross opening').

The Smithsonian photo, (that I brightened a bit), shows a jagged-edged 'oval' cavity, on the side of the bolt. This is where metal is missing.
This cavity allows us to glimpse the firing-pin body, which would normally be concealed within the bolt.

I believe some high pressure gases entered this Krag's bolt-body through the firing-pin opening of the bolt face.
These gases would have been directed sideways by the angle of the firing-pin.

A part of the bolt's sidewall 'let go', where it would be relatively thin, due to the machined square-cornered groove that provides clearance for the ejector.
Attachments
Krag firing-pin diverting gas flow.jpg
Krag firing-pin diverting gas flow.jpg (98.68 KiB) Viewed 1378 times

FredC
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Location: Dewees Texas

Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by FredC »

I got it now. Image 9075 is your perfectly normal bolt and parts for comparison purposes and not part of the blown up rifle. I was looking at the circled portion for evidence of swelling and could not see it. Why that firing pin did not show any evidence of gas cutting and burning is clear now.

Awful lot of damage for gas that got though the firing pin hole.

Think about it before you make fun of a blind machinist for not getting this the first time. It's not nice to make fun of blind people. Got an appointment with a new eye doctor later this month. No clue yet when I can get the surgery. Soon I will need a seeing eye dog to get me out to my hunting locations. Bumped into a skunk this morning (5:20AM) going out to the spot where I shot the 3 pigs a couple of months ago. He ran off without giving me the stink. Worse than getting the stink is having a rabid one bite you.

Back to blown up Krag, the locking lugs on the bolt and receiver seem to be still intact. Brass case head must have stayed somewhat intact with all the pressure exiting through the primer. The maligned single locking lug is not that bad.

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butlersrangers
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Re: You don't see this everyday.

Post by butlersrangers »

Fred, I have no intention of making fun of you! (It is hard to clearly communicate in writing & pictures, online).

We do not get a chance to see a Krag that was destroyed in service very often. I think that makes Krag #170493, interesting.

I wish the Smithsonian had clearer photographs and had troubled to put things in better context. The full extent of damage cannot be seen in their images.

IMHO - There is a good story here, that a bit of investigation might better reveal.

I suspect that jagged bolt metal may prevent the Bolt from rotating and being 'opened' on this 'relic' Krag. (A fired cartridge-case may still be in the chamber)?
It is likely that gases also flowed around the bolt-face and stretched & fractured the receiver in the barrel-breech area.

My uneducated guess is that a bore obstruction or failed cartridge-case 'Head' could be the 'Event' that destroyed this rifle.

Possibly this happened with no or little injury to the person, who fired the rifle?

The path of least resistance, to the high-pressure gases, was sidewards (and upwards through the bolt's vent-hole) and not to the rear.
The Bolt held.
Maybe, Ole and Eric envisioned all this?

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