Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

U.S. Military Krags
Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by Whig »

I saw this Krag on the internet and copied this picture of the receiver. It is a model 1892 that has been through the 1896 updates. There are many non-original parts on the rifle. This picture shows what appears to be a carved out or blown out section of the receiver above the side plate. I noticed a number of additional clues that may indicate that there may have been an exploded cartridge in this receiver that possible blew out the receiver and damaged the side plate. This side plate is new and the screw is not original. There also appears to be what could be a burn mark on the stock bottom right of the side plate. Might be a burn mark.

It is always interesting to play detective with less than optimal information and consider possibilities. The bolt is not original and the magazine cover is newer, also, from a couple other pictures. But, this is the key picture to evaluate. I didn't see any pictures from inside the receiver.

If there had been an exploded cartridge for what ever reason, could the receiver blow out like we are seeing here? What other possibilities run through your head?

Just a fun exercise. I don't know the answers. Just wanted to share this and see what develops from different perspectives and see what else might be in this one picture. I often miss things.

Have fun and thanks!
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by butlersrangers »

Whig, I imagine a cartridge-case failure, over-load, or bore obstruction has allowed high pressure gases to flow back into the receiver. It appears gas flowed into the magazine cut-off 'tunnel' in the receiver wall and burst part of the wall.

Back in January of 2022, I made a post about a damaged Krag, #170493.
This rifle is in the National Firearms Collection of the Smithsonian.
(Its current carbine handguard and model 1901 rear-sight are probably careless replacements).

This Rifle's serial number is listed four times in Mallory's SRS Data, contained in the appendix of the "Krag Rifle Story", second edition.

7/15/1899 - Issued to 26th USV Inf.
11/21/1899 - Balangtan, Panay, P.I. Recovered
7/20/1900 - Co. A, 26th USV Inf. Battle Loss
6/7/1901 - OCO sent in by Captain Griswold

Attached are several photos; one shows part of the bolt body 'blown out', at the front of the groove that straddles the ejector 'lobe', as the bolt is drawn back and pushed forward.
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FredC
Posts: 1991
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Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by FredC »

First thought was a delayed ignition with the cartridge almost ejected. Discarded that idea because an exploding cartridge would not have enough pressure to cut the receiver that way. Normal overloads would cause damage in other places and not so much gas cutting there.

Without further photos or documentation, a misadventure with a cutting torch needs to be at least considered.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by butlersrangers »

Whig has indicated that the side-plate and screw have likely been replaced.

It is plausible, that escaping high pressure gases blew off the side-plate and a thin area of the left receiver wall.

This kind of damage is interesting because we have so rarely seen it!

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Myron
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Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by Myron »

My guess is that maybe the bolt lug broke, unnoticed. The next round was fired as the bolt was not in battery.

Doubly Reincarnated
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Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by Doubly Reincarnated »

My guess is case head failure, perhaps accompanied by a bore obstruction. The cartridge case rim normally does a pretty good job of keeping the gas in the chamber, even when the case itself is ruptured. I've experienced that.

That written, I'm thinking that it must have been a handload. Factory-loaded cartridge powders, military or civilian, don't leave enough air volume for a massive overload. But pistol powders of the day, Unique or Bullseye or even 2400, would do it, especially if combined with a heavy bullet.

Another thought is what if it was another caliber cartridge? Not sure what might chamber. Maybe .35 Remington? Or a .401 WSL? A .33 WCF might fit, but I don't think you could cram a .348 or a .35 WCF or a .405 WCF into a Krag chamber. The .401 WSL was loaded with a case full of 2400 and. per Phil Sharpe, generated 50,000 psi.

And when did it happen? The screw holding the side plate in place looks rather new. What if it was a .358 Winchester?

Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by Whig »

I suspect damage was from an exploded round maybe from a bore obstruction to have blown out the side like this. Don't know any other history. If I can find out, I'll post here. Interesting opinions. Appreciate the thoughts!

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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by butlersrangers »

I doubt that a 'cracked' or failed locking lug would be a factor.
The Bolt guide-rib and Bolt handle would keep the bolt "in battery", even if the lug was absent.

If part of the bolt-face had broke off and was missing, that could get exciting!

A 'case-head separation' is normally a non-event in a Krag or Lee-Enfield. The 'cup' of the cartridge base and rim is sufficient to seal and keep gases in the chamber and barrel, if the bolt adequately supports the 'cup'.

If there is a material flaw in the composition of the case-head or primer-pocket area, an excessive pressure event (from numerous possibilities), or a badly pierced primer, I imagine high pressure gas will get into the bolt or around the bolt and cause mischief.

I think an excessive load or double-load of pistol powder would shatter the receiver ring and part of the barrel or blow-off the barrel.

A reload with an oversize projectile would likely act like a bore obstruction and send gas back into the acton.
A squib load, that allows a bullet to lodge in the bore, followed by a fired round, will hurt the action!

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King carp
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Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by King carp »

It seems like an odd place for the receiver to fail. I wonder if someone was trying to remove a rusted or stuck sideplate with a hammer and chisel and broke that piece of the receiver off. Just a thought. Interesting post.

FredC
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: Dewees Texas

Re: Krag Receiver Damage- What Happened?

Post by FredC »

Just checked my loose Krag receiver and the metal is very heavy in that area. It would take repeated blow outs to cause that kind of erosion. On the side plate we see Bubba put wrong parts on Krags all the time. Getting out the Dremel and trying to fix a feed problem is fairly common. When that did not work, could Bubba have dropped back and punted with a cutting torch? I still think that is possible.

Reminds me of an employee here that bought a surplus riimmed Russian bolt action rifle cheap. He wanted to put a scope on it. He could have used one of my milling machines to drill and tap it for a commercial scope mount, but he welded a 1/8 by 1/2 inch tab to the receiver that was about an inch long then welded another piece of the same to the first tab and somehow attached the scope rings to that. He sighted it in at a range and seral guys came over to see what he was shooting. He thought it was because the rifle was so loud, made me wonder if it was to see the Bubba scope mount.

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