M1898 Carbine

[sbreheny]

Hi all,

New member asking a common question: I just bought an "M1898 Carbine" and I want to know if it is authentic or a conversion.

The barrel measures 21 and 7/8 inches by the cleaning rod to bolt face method. Serial number (139144) seems to be just slightly above the known range for 98 Carbines. Cartouche is J.S.A 1901. I have tried to take good photos and what I have is posted here. I have a 98 rifle and the crown and front sight look the same. There are holes near the front of the stock and the butt where I assume a sling was attached at one point and those holes have been filled-in. There is no upper handguard (perhaps it is missing?). The front barrel band is held on by a spring fitting, not a pin.

The rifle is shown removed from the stock in the photos (and there are separate photos of the stock). It looks like someone added a sliding aperture to the rear sight and what appears to be the base for an aperture sight to the bolt itself (but the actual aperture is broken off).

Thanks for your help,

Sean

[Whig]

Hi! Welcome to KCA!

Just a couple comments on your new Krag purchase. An authentic Krag carbine is exactly 22 inches from the muzzle to the closed bolt head measured with a cleaning rod. Anything else is a cut down rifle. The stock you have, I lightened and cropped one of your pictures, looks like a correct carbine stock with the barrel band spring in the front but is your spring missing? Picture is hard to see. The front sight looks funny like it was not an authentic sight welded in place by someone other than Springfield Armory or is is altered and welded. Look at the details and brazed base in the pictures I posted below. These were expertly attached at Springfield Armory like all Krag front sights.

You appear to have a sporterized Krag cut down and placed in a carbine stock. I can't see the rear sight but it looks like a Krag rifle sight, not a carbine sight. They are configured differently and marked with a couple "C"s on the side and/or rear sight plate. Sporterized Krags can be great shooting firearms and fun to use and often function very similar to original Krags. How is the bore? If the rifling is still relatively good, it may still shoot well. Might want to have the bolt and chamber examined well before shooting to make sure it is safe and not re-chambered to another caliber other than the official .30-40 Krag caliber.

The rear sight you have is a Model 1902 Krag rear sight with the sliding peep sight added at Springfield Armory. These apertures were added for better precision in shooting mainly for competition and not actual use during battle because they were hard to use by soldiers quickly. These have been called "Sgt. Peep" sights. They can be found on Krag rifle and carbine sights.

Can you post some pictures of the rear sight and receiver including the serial number stamping? Thanks!

[03collector]

Welcome to the KCA,

I agree with Mr. Whig, there are a lot of helpful members on this site.

[Whig]

Also, your Krag looks to have been re-blued in areas and the stock refinished and shiny with varnish. Often done. The hand guard is missing because they are frequently taken off and sold separately. They can be very expensive, depending on which one you need, which depends on which rear sight you have attached to the Krag. All rear sights have the same distance between screw holes and are interchangeable but not always appropriate for that Krag. Replacement hand guards are often hundreds of dollars. We have seen replacement hand guards sell for $800 before on ebay! That's why they are often missing! Rear carbine sights sell for more than rifle sights and are often replaced, as it appears on yours. The carbine sights were designed to be used with the shorter barrel and proper front sight blade. If you shoot yours as is, it may or may not shoot to point of aim depending on these stated factors. But, it should be fun to try and see what happens! We'll help along the way!

[psteinmayer]

It's obvious that it's a re-attached front sight post, with brazing material evident. It may be just a illusion, but it appears to me that someone has ground the top of the barrel flat to create a flat surface for re-attachment of the post. True Springfield attached posts are first dovetailed in place before being brazed with not a trace of brazing material visible. Also, as Whig stated, that's a 1902 Rifle sight. A 1902 carbine rear sight would have a much lower ramp profile and would be marked with a very specific "C". Still, cut-down Krags are still Krags, and we've all had them! It should be a good shooter and afford you decades of good shooting and Krag fun!

[Culpeper]

Maybe I missed it in the comments but he has a carbine stock. Look at the pic of the left side of the stock the hole is forward of the barrel band. And you can just barely make out the channel for the spring on the right side view. The spring is missing.

*Yep. Missed it* Oh well I stand by the post.

[butlersrangers]

'Sbreheny' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. It would be interesting to see the barrel-band that came on your 'cut-down' model 1898 rifle. The correct barrel-band for your stock is the model 1899 band.

Your stock is the type that was adopted for the model 1899 carbine.
(This stock was also used to rebuild model 1898 carbines into carbines identical to the 1899 model).

If you need a barrel-band spring for your stock, or a barrel-band, those parts are available from 'Grandpa's Gun Parts'.
(A link can be found in KCA Classifieds).

Although not a correct combination of parts, your 'altered' rifle can be spiffed-up a bit, (by cleaning-up the file marks and putting a Krag sight blade in the front-sight base), to make a nice-looking replica 'carbine' and fun shooter.
(Replica Krag sight-blades are available from S&S Firearms, Glendale, N.Y.).

[sbreheny]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful answers. I suspected that this rifle was not an original carbine (and I only paid $550 for it) but I just wanted to check. I am impressed with how well the muzzle crown was done if it is not original.

I do have barrel band and spring which holds it - I removed them to clean with all of the other metal parts and so they are not in my photos (I should have taken a photos before I took it apart). I will post a photo of the barrel band later but for now, here are a few additional photos which I could not attach to the original post.

The bore is very good so I do believe that this will be a good shooter as others have said. I will double check the chamber size to make sure it is still in 30-40 Krag.

Sean

[sbreheny]

Additional photos (of barrel band and spring and also sights)

How the HECK were you supposed to use that peep sight? Were you supposed to get your eye closer to the rear sight? It seems way too small to be used unless one's eye is within a couple of inches of it.

[butlersrangers]

The aperture size on the "Sgt. Peep" is way too small for most older shooters. Many of these sights have been drilled to enlarge the hole.
It is intended to be used just like the "V" notch. The aperture supposedly allows finer sighting on the Target Range.

I don't use it, because it is easily knocked out of position and blocks too much of the target field.

I guess your serial number is 139144, but it can easily be read as 189144. Many Krag serial numbers get misread. The fonts got changed from time to time.
Damaged 'Stamping Dies' got used for a bit, before poorly stamped numbers were noticed. Some serial numbers have a flat topped "3". (3 and 6 are often misread as an 8).
Model 1896 is often misread as model 1898.
Krags are Fun!

The remnant of a 'peep'-sight, clamped to your Bolt-Sleeve, was made by the Leroy Rice Co. of Elyria, Ohio.
The Extractor is normally held in-place, on the Bolt-Sleeve, by a special pin or 'rivet'.
The 'Rice' sight was made from the 1930's to the 1960's, as an after-market Hunting-Sight.

If you have any interest in removing and selling (or trading) your partial Rice-Sight, I have a need for a couple of its screws and nut. (I would be interested).

Attached are photos of a Rice Sight and instructions: