Slender wristed updated Krag

U.S. Military Krags
03collector
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by 03collector »

Very nice find, that was the same weekend as the Weaton Civil War show. You sure can't complain about the price it's nice to get a deal now and then.
My two 92/96 rifles are in the 21,000 and 6,000 range if i remember correct. Congratulations

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butlersrangers
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by butlersrangers »

The five digit serial number is not listed in SRS data, so outside of it being in the 19XXX range, it is not so important.
(I guess I'm getting paranoid in my old age).

IMHO - The barrel, bands, trigger-guard, and butt-plate are 'browned' (rust blued), as done by Armory 'rebuild' procedures.
I don't think there is anything suspicious about this rifle.

It is interesting that the Bolt works a bit 'sticky', at present. The 'bare' Bolt functions very smoothly.
The resistance is caused by the close fit of the sides of the extractor and its receiver opening. The parts have not been 'worn in' yet.

I do intend to give it a 'Range Outing'. The model 1896 front and rear sight combination will be a challenge.

Whig
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by Whig »

I was looking at the pictures of your nice new Krag addition and see something I have always looked for. Inside of the magazine, it looks like, in the lightened picture below, that there is the tell-tale sign that Joe Farmer has pointed out before of the receiver having possibly been dipped and re-blued. There is an angled area that is un-blued and the bluing below that angle. This is, of course, not something Springfield Armory would have done. The picture is not clear on this point but it looks like it is what I am seeing. These issues are frequently hard to figure out for sure. What are your thoughts? It's so hard to tell from pictures alone. And have you switched bolts from another Krag to see if your bolt is the tight issue or the receiver?

It's always fun to play with these firearms and try to figure out its history. Shooting them, though, is the best!
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butlersrangers
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by butlersrangers »

The bolt of the 1892/1896 only binds a bit, when fully assembled.
It is evident that the rather 'new' looking 1896 extractor is rubbing a bit on the inside of the left receiver wall.
I did try the complete bolt from a model 1896 rifle and things felt more normal.
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butlersrangers
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by butlersrangers »

Whig, I believe this "1892/1896" Krag is very much the work of Springfield Armory.

If I recall Mr. Farmer's observation and theory, (from a lot of years ago), the 'white area' inside the magazine box may have been caused by 'wire-hangers'.
These wire hooks suspended the 'used' barreled/actions, during the re-building step that involved a new 'rust-bluing' (browning).

A newly manufactured Krag had a totally finished ('browned') barrel assembled onto a totally finished case-hardened (& colored) receiver.

A 'Rebuild Krag' was a totally different animal, concerning finish.
If a used barrel was acceptable, the barrel and receiver stayed together and after cleaning & metal prep, went united through the rust-"browning" process. The case-hardened receiver, of course, reacted differently to the controlled 'rust' process than the barrel steel.

I disagree with Joe Farmer, a bit.
Wire hooks were certainly involved, but IMHO much of that 'bare metal' appearance inside Krag receivers is the way the case-hardened receivers accepted the 'rust-bluing'.
Just about all Krag receivers, whether 'rebuilds' or not, have some 'mottled-color' areas', on inside protected surfaces.

I think the dull black finish on my model '92/96' may be a good clue as to how a 'rebuild' case-hardened receiver reacted to 'rust-bluing'.
Last edited by butlersrangers on Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

Knute1
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by Knute1 »

Here are some pictures, BR. I had posted these about 4 years ago, so you may recall them. I was wrong, it is 21xxx. How could I forget my old girls number?
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Krag6a.jpg
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butlersrangers
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by butlersrangers »

Nice looking Krag, Knute!

Our rifles look like 'pups from the same litter' and are within 2,000 digits of each other.

I remember your rifle now. You threw me, when you said, "Magazine Rifle".

Joe Farmer identified a group of Krag rifles that he called "Magazine Rifles". (I believe they occurred near your Krag's 21XXX serial number).
Mr. Farmer related, that so many changes had been made to rifles, being produced at some point in 1895, that the rifles were no longer interchangeable with the model 1892 rifle.
These 'orphan' Krag rifles were being listed in Ordnance Department reports as "Magazine Rifles".
Apparently, this rifle 'type' retained the model 1892 stock, handguard, and forearm cleaning-rod.
The rifle had a model 1896 rear-sight and bolt. The extractor lacked a 'hold-open' pin, and the receiver lacked the hold-open 'notch'.
This U.S. Krag variation had a butt-plate with a re-curve in the toe, but no butt-trap or deep cavities for weight reduction and appendages.

Other forum members are far more knowledgeable than me, on this Krag variant.
Last edited by butlersrangers on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Knute1
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by Knute1 »

As far as the "bolt hold open" is concerned: When an 1892 was refurbished to 1896 it would still not have had the 1892 receiver modified for the bolt hold open. This would have been due to not having the expertise and/or equipment to perform the required grinding for the notch in the hardened receiver. It would have been returned at a later date.

Here is the original circular to round up Model 1892's that were already out in the field:
Circular#5.jpg
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I believe that our Krags were "still in the shop" without ever being released to the field when they were updated minus the "hold open". Mine has the curved butt plate with trap door, the extended handguard over the receiver ring, recessed rivets in the handguard (another potential burn area), the filled in cleaning rod channel, and the 1896 sight. Our stocks may not be original to the gun due to the refurbishing practice of removal of the stocks, throw them into a bin, update the stocks, grab a stock out of the bin and install it on whatever gun being put together without consideration where it had been installed before. I believe my gun was originally assembled in 1895, but the cartouche shows 1896. The proof mark is double stamped under the stock. I see a hint of ghost of a stamp in your picture. They may have been proofed again after the updates.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by butlersrangers »

Does anyone have good content, (besides Poyer), on the exact updates done in the 1897 program, to alter model 1892 rifles to model 1896,
in contrast to the alterations carried out during the second program in the early 1900's?

Knute, I bumped the old thread about your Uncle's Krag, because there was so much interesting content. (I could not find this information the other day).

Knute1
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Re: Slender wristed updated Krag

Post by Knute1 »

Yes, the post was from my early formative years when I was trying to make sense of what everyone was saying. I came around when it finally penetrated my skull.

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