Model 1899 Carbine

U.S. Military Krags
hopalong
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:29 pm

Model 1899 Carbine

Post by hopalong »

Hi, I recently decided to wade (or maybe jump) into Krag waters with the purchase of this Model 1899. In going through Poyer's book, it looks like the major parts are mostly original. It dates to September 1901, so it appears the Model 1901 Buffington rear sight and handguard are correct. It has a replaced front sight blade with a bead. I would appreciate your thoughts/observations.

I've also arranged to buy an NRA carbine from a gentleman I know. I figure my son and I can shoot the NRA gun and keep the 1899 as a collector. The NRA gun is shown in the last two photos.

Any advice on safe ammo?

Thanks, Tim

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Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by Whig »

Welcome! Your Model 1899 carbine looks pretty nice overall. It was manufactured at Springfield Armory around August 1901. The stock is in very nice condition with a few scratches and dings. There seem to be a lot of these Model 1899 carbines on the market right now. (auctions) They are nice Krag carbines to have and it looks like you have a correct Model 1901 carbine rear sight to go with it. The front sight blade is fine if it works well with your rear sight adjustments. You can replace that if you want or keep it. Any cleaning tools in the butt compartment?

We have discussed NRA Krags on this site before. The conclusion is that the only way to really know you have an authentic NRA Krag carbine is to have documentation. Many Krags have been stamped "NRA" in different ways that don't seem correct. I have one of them. Most stampings just don't look correct compared to know NRA stampings on firearms. Tread carefully and don't pay for the name. Buy the rifle, as the saying goes, unless you have good documentation. The one in the pictures you posted is a sporterized, altered rifle with a cut down rifle stock and an aftermarket front sight. These often sell for under $500 because they are not military collectibles having been altered from the original configuration. They are a dime a dozen, in a sense. Many , many out there.

Pretty much all factory .30-40 Krag ammunition is fine to shoot in your Krags if your chamber, bolt and barrel look in good condition. Some Krag bolts have cracks in them. Very few but it should be examined by someone who knows what to look for. Hopefully you have good rifling left in the barrel. Pitting can be there but you want rifling to be a good shooting Krag. Ammo is hard to find. Keep your brass and reload like almost all of us.

I'd keep the Model 1899 carbine and shoot it lots! It is not new and was made to use. I would probably pass on the other unless the price is right. The NRA designation probably doesn't mean a lot in this case. Opinions may vary on this point.

Thanks for sharing and welcome again!

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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by butlersrangers »

'hopalong' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. It looks like you picked-up a nice & honest U.S. Model 1899 carbine.

Whig covered everything very well. You will do no harm to your carbine's value by shooting it and giving it a little TLC.
A replica 1899 carbine front-blade can be purchased from S&S Firearms, Glendale, N.Y. (BTW - The sight pin is tapered and is intended to be driven out, left to right).
An original carbine blade is nearly impossible to find.

Your present commercial blade is a lot easier for older eyes at the Target Range, so give it a try.

'Grandpa's Gun Parts', viewable in the KCA "Classifieds", has the original three-section cleaning rods and oil bottle, that fit in the butt-trap, for around $50.

A very desirable but expensive accessory is the Krag carbine front-sight hood/protector. This protected the sight blade and leather saddle-scabbard from damaging each other.
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psteinmayer
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:31 am

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by psteinmayer »

I agree with Whig and Butlersrangers. Keep and shoot the 1899 Carbine. As long as you treat it right, you'll do no harm! Unless you want a second Krag sporter (because that's what it is without actual documentation)... and the price is right (under $500), I'd pass on the other.

FWIW, I was told, AND believed that my sporter was in fact an 1898 Carbine... until I listened to the people here about 15 years ago! I had purchased it from a Mississippi pawn shop in the early 1980s, and while researching it, I listened to some people that obviously had ZERO idea of what they were talking about. My sporter is nothing more than an 1898 rifle that was cut down (not even to carbine length) and placed in a Bishop sport stock... and nothing more! Be careful who you listen to outside of this forum. Some may be right and some may be wrong, not that they are necessarily being dishonest... they might just not know what is correct. However, the people here at KCA are honest, smart, and have decades upon decades of Krag research and knowledge in their hip pocket... and will never steer you wrong!!!

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Dick Hosmer
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by Dick Hosmer »

The sight cover (now getting hard to find) is an expensive 'fix', BUT it does pretty much cover the replacement blade! Any current commercial Krag ammo should be OK - unlike the .45-70 where you DO need to sort the 1873 trapdoor stuff from that intended for the 1886 Winchester, 1895 Marlin and Ruger #1.

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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by butlersrangers »

I was not advocating using a Krag carbine front-sight cover.

I just posted the pictures so the OP could see what an original model 1899 carbine blade looks like and some of the accessories that were used with the carbine.

IMHO, for 50 & 100 yard target-range use, the original carbine front-sight blade is a poor choice. Krag carbines often shoot high. A taller front blade helps correct this situation.

hopalong
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:29 pm

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by hopalong »

Whig wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:50 pm Welcome! Your Model 1899 carbine looks pretty nice overall. It was manufactured at Springfield Armory around August 1901. The stock is in very nice condition with a few scratches and dings. There seem to be a lot of these Model 1899 carbines on the market right now. (auctions) They are nice Krag carbines to have and it looks like you have a correct Model 1901 carbine rear sight to go with it. The front sight blade is fine if it works well with your rear sight adjustments. You can replace that if you want or keep it. Any cleaning tools in the butt compartment?

We have discussed NRA Krags on this site before. The conclusion is that the only way to really know you have an authentic NRA Krag carbine is to have documentation. Many Krags have been stamped "NRA" in different ways that don't seem correct. I have one of them. Most stampings just don't look correct compared to know NRA stampings on firearms. Tread carefully and don't pay for the name. Buy the rifle, as the saying goes, unless you have good documentation. The one in the pictures you posted is a sporterized, altered rifle with a cut down rifle stock and an aftermarket front sight. These often sell for under $500 because they are not military collectibles having been altered from the original configuration. They are a dime a dozen, in a sense. Many , many out there.

Pretty much all factory .30-40 Krag ammunition is fine to shoot in your Krags if your chamber, bolt and barrel look in good condition. Some Krag bolts have cracks in them. Very few but it should be examined by someone who knows what to look for. Hopefully you have good rifling left in the barrel. Pitting can be there but you want rifling to be a good shooting Krag. Ammo is hard to find. Keep your brass and reload like almost all of us.

I'd keep the Model 1899 carbine and shoot it lots! It is not new and was made to use. I would probably pass on the other unless the price is right. The NRA designation probably doesn't mean a lot in this case. Opinions may vary on this point.

Thanks for sharing and welcome again!
Thanks for your input. As for the bolt, can you give me an idea of what I should be looking for? The gun appears to have a nice bore, and the action is buttery smooth. I stocked up on 30-40 Krag in 2019, about the time I bought a Miroku Winchester 1895 carbine. I have a few hundred rounds of HSM Game King and Cowboy Action loads.

As for the NRA gun, I've read what you mention regarding the necessity of documentation. I don't believe the seller has any, but he's a long-time member of another Forum I've frequented for years. I won't say what he is asking, but it is definitely more than $500. He included a copy of Brophy's book, which he already shipped me some time ago. He believes it's an NRA gun, and I agreed to his price so I'm just going to go with it. Relationships are worth more than money, so if I'm taking a hit, there are worse things in life. :)

hopalong
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:29 pm

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by hopalong »

butlersrangers wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:20 pm I was not advocating using a Krag carbine front-sight cover.

I just posted the pictures so the OP could see what an original model 1899 carbine blade looks like and some of the accessories that were used with the carbine.

IMHO, for 50 & 100 yard target-range use, the original carbine front-sight blade is a poor choice. Krag carbines often shoot high. A taller front blade helps correct this situation.
What I find interesting about the reproduction sight is that it has a very high-angled, sharp profile. Is it designed that way to be filed to the shooter's desired height? The originals don't seem to be as extreme.
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As far as accessories go, I think the most I've ever paid was for an original Webley Prideaux speed loader. OMG, you talk about a lot of money for some stamped pieces of metal! :lol: I feel sorry for the people who've purchased reproductions at original specimen prices. At one point I wanted a keyhole magazine for a first-year Colt Model 1911, but they have become prohibitively expensive.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by butlersrangers »

The S&S Firearms reproduction Krag front-sight blades are not shaped correctly. They seem to have extra height in order to allow 'sightlng-in', by filing down the front blade.

The attached photo shows an original U.S. model 1899 Krag carbine blade and a model 1898 rifle blade. The carbine blade, when removed from its base, measures about .355". The rifle blade height measures .413".
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hopalong
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:29 pm

Re: Model 1899 Carbine

Post by hopalong »

Thank you for posting the photo.

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