(new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

U.S. Military Krags
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shadow2880
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:18 am

(new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by shadow2880 »

Hello everyone. I'm new to owning a Krag (#74510), but not new to collecting military surplus. I've already submitted information to the Observed Serial Number List. I was extremely happy to find this Krag though in going through previous posts here pertaining to the 96 carbine I came across a comment about a reproduction rear sight. The sight in question has a straight top to the number three on the base instead of a rounded top; mine also has a straight top on the number three. My sight does have the "C" on the other side of the base as well as on the leaf. Can I have your opinions please?

The only other issues that I see is the front sight blade is a lyman aftermarket and there is no evidence of a cartouche. I spent a while using various lighting and viewing angles. The only mark is on the bottom near the trigger guard with the stamp A L. The previous owner really cleaned the butt plate, it's shiny. Finally, the previous owner used some white compound to highlight the receiver and rear sight markings.

This is my first post so I don't know if I can post a link. This is a link to a Google folder with all the pictures I've taken of it: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Please let me know if I missed any other issues but I'm more concerned about the rear sight.

Thanks!
Stoneking
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Last edited by shadow2880 on Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

shadow2880
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:18 am

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by shadow2880 »

Here are some other photos of the rifle.
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Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by Whig »

StoneKing- Welcome to KCA! We will try to help you evaluate your beautiful Krag carbine. It looks real nice overall. Don't worry that you can't find a cartouche. Stocks that were replaced at the arsenal during use did not have a cartouche on them. This is OK. The front sight blade can be replaced if you want but should work fine the way it is.

I am a little concerned about your Model 1896 carbine rear sight. I have posted pictures of an authentic one from different angles below. An authentic one should really look just like mine. Yours has a few concerns that make me question its authenticity. It is not real clear but we need other opinions. The "C" stamp on the side is too large. Is there a "7" on the right lower part of the slide under the "9" like on mine? The hand guard looks like it has been altered also. The "c" on the right side of the slide should be covered by the hand guard when mounted. These are details that we look for in evaluating these somewhat rare carbines. The authentic Model 1896 rear carbine sight by itself sells for $1,000 or more when they are seen! To correct your reference to finding a previous post about these sights, they have never been officially "reproduced". They have been outright faked because of their value.

Overall I like what I see. Your carbine was manufactured at the Springfield Armory around August 1897. If you just bought this, could you share around what you paid? I'm curious with regard to the rear sight to see if that was factored in as authentic. Don't need to share that if you don't want to.

These are just a few points. We like to be picky here but we do enjoy sharing with others and learning about what people have found in the Krag world. More to come from others. Welcome again.

Authentic Krag Model 1896 carbine sight:
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shadow2880
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:18 am

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by shadow2880 »

Hello Whig, and thanks for the welcome. And thanks for confirming my concern about the rear sight. Here are some different images I just took (and uploaded to that Google folder too). It does have the #7 under the #9. In the one image it looks like there was a slight overcut at the back corner when the handguard was cut down. It wasn't necessary for the fake sight to fit, I wonder why it was cut?..... Anyway, I did pay $1,200 and I knew it was a least an original carbine model. After getting it home and finding this forum and other references I started doubting the sight.

I suppose I need to decide whether to keep the sight or replace it with a standard 96 sight base. My initial feeling is that I'd rather have an age-correct wrong sight verses a fake one; but I'd like to hear what others think too. Shame about the handguard.

Regardless, I welcome all comments and criticism (including the price I paid).

Cheers,
Stoneking
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Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by Whig »

Yea, I'm going with a faked Model 1896 carbine sight. Look at all of the fresh machining marks in yours. A sight 120+ years old will have worn smooth any machining marks which just aren't seen on authentic sights. And that "7" seems to have been added as an afterthought because it is too low and smaller and the font is different. I have seen about 5 faked sights before. This makes 6. They are all different.

Good job but just not like an authentic one. We frown on these fake sights circulating at all. I would like to say, in a different world, to deface it and destroy it but don't do that. Get other opinions first and you can still use it if it gives you accuracy with shooting your otherwise nice carbine. The sling and ring really look great on these!

Check your chamber, bolt and bore. If you find .30-40 Krag ammo, it should still shoot well unless all of the rifling is worn off or the pitting is too extensive. How does the bore look?

You can use another rear sight. All of the Krag rear sights use the same screw holes. Different sights may use different screws and hand guards. You can use what you have to see how it works.

I would guess that an authentic Model 1896 Krag carbine without the correct carbine sight is worth around $900 or so. With the correct sight, $1600-1700. Depends on the bore condition also. That correct sight just is so hard to find and most Model 1896 carbines that people find with the correct sight have it stripped off and sold separately. You can look. There are a few scattered around but they are hard to find and very expensive. I still need a couple more myself.

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butlersrangers
Posts: 9827
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by butlersrangers »

Back in April 2021, I posted similar photos of a fake model 1896 carbine sight on the KCA Forum.

It was being sold on ebay and was obviously wrong. I think these "remanufactured" sights may have been offered by S&S Firearms.
They appeared to be reworked from a model 1896 rifle sight.
IMHO - An unmolested rifle sight would be preferable.

'Shadow2880' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. You have a nice-looking model 1896 carbine. Too bad the handguard was messed with.

Attached: Three photos of bogus sight. The fourth photo is the real thing.
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Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by Whig »

That's an interesting thought that these may have come from S&S. If that's the case, though, wouldn't they all look similar? Every one I have seen is very differently done? I would also think that these "remanufactured? ones, if legit, would be marked in some way, like with an "R" like many companies do with replacement parts. I just don't know.

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butlersrangers
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by butlersrangers »

The two bogus ones (OP's and the one I posted) seem to share the same replacement 'slide-assembly' and large "C" stamp on base.

The sight leaf in both cases appear to have had original markings removed and new numerals hand stamped.

(S&S Firearms, normally a fine source for original and reproduction parts, did engage in fabricating and marketing some "replica" Krag carbine 'fill-in'/replacement sights of different models, that were made up from loose parts. These made-up sights were sold as such, but not marked "replica". They are 'out there').

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Dick Hosmer
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm

Re: (new to me) 1896 Carbine - sight confirmation

Post by Dick Hosmer »

I definitely agree with previous posters - the sight is bogus. As to the hand guard, a completely undetectable replacement can be made by modifying the 1896 rifle version - which is basically what SA did themselves. They are cheaper and easier to find - probably also stronger/better because the front portion of the original carbine part was VERY fragile and is often found broken away. A good fine-tooth saw, a SHARP small chisel, sandpaper, and PATIENCE are all you need.

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