Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

U.S. Military Krags
Post Reply
User avatar
ScandiHooligan
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Florida

Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by ScandiHooligan »

Last month a friend of mine Mike, (a different Mike from my other post) contacted me about one of his customers whose husband was a collector of antique guns, but he’d passed away a couple of years ago and wanted to know if he would be interested in the two “Springfield Armory” Krags she had. He wasn’t, but knew I had a “Krag Jorgensen Elgrifle”, so he called me and told me about them. About two weeks ago I went to the ladies house prepared to take a bunch of pictures, but she told me I could take them both home with me to look them over and do my research. As suggested in my “Elgrifle” post I did find a copy of Lt. Col. Brophy’s, “The Krag Rifle” on ebay and the lady gave me a copy of “The American Krag Rifle and Carbine” by Joe Poyer. Needless to say, I’ve just about worn both those books out flipping through the pages. I know next to nothing about either of these rifles except that her husband had apparently purchased the rifle from some one and the Carbine had been in the family for some time; I believe she said it was her or his grandfathers. When I see her again, I will try and dig a little deeper on who owned the Carbine.
In this posting I will share with you what I have learned about these two rifles between Lt. Col. Brophy, Joe Poyer’s books and this forum, but I really look forward to learning from everyone on this forum, as much as possible. In the end, I would like an estimation of what would be a “Fair Price” to offer this lady for her late husbands Krags. I told her that whether I purchase the rifles from her or not, I will share with her all the information I learn. So, here I go! FYI, since I don’t own either of these rifles I am not disassembling them. All observations except the borescope are external.

“Model 1898 Springfield Armory Krag”, Serial No. 146000
• Though the Stock is dirty/aged, it’s still in relatively good condition with only minor dings and scrapes.
• Cartouche. On the left side of the Stock just above the Trigger Guard you can barely make out the Inspection Cartouche. I missed it the first couple of times I looked for it. Still can’t make out the initials or year, but it is there.
• Proof “P”. Though like the Inspection Cartoughe, it’s only visible in the right lighting, it is there.
• Buttstock Cleaning Rod Compartment. Holes are there, but no rods. The spring loaded door still functions.
• Barrel Length, 30” measured with a wooden dowel inserted down the barrel till it hit the bolt face, marked then measured the dowel.
• Barrel Bore. I ran a Digital Borescope down the barrel and I did record it. Nothing jumped out at me other than it was dirty. I could see the rifling, but not knowing exactly how it should look, I’ll show the video to my other friend Mike on Sunday and get his opinion.
• Magazine Gate, Bolt, Magazine Cutoff, Safety and Trigger all seem to operate normally and smoothly.
• Rear Sight mechanically works. Not sure if it’s the correct one though.
• Front Sight. Looks original.
Attachments
1RS.jpg
1RS.jpg (240.31 KiB) Viewed 749 times
2RS.jpg
2RS.jpg (188.72 KiB) Viewed 749 times
3RS.jpg
3RS.jpg (233.99 KiB) Viewed 749 times
4RS.jpg
4RS.jpg (173.16 KiB) Viewed 749 times
5RS.jpg
5RS.jpg (254.43 KiB) Viewed 749 times

User avatar
ScandiHooligan
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Florida

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by ScandiHooligan »

More Pics
Attachments
6RS.jpg
6RS.jpg (184.22 KiB) Viewed 748 times
7RS.jpg
7RS.jpg (166.56 KiB) Viewed 748 times
8RS.jpg
8RS.jpg (254.49 KiB) Viewed 748 times
9RS.jpg
9RS.jpg (231.28 KiB) Viewed 748 times

User avatar
ScandiHooligan
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Florida

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by ScandiHooligan »

“Model 1899 Springfield Armory Krag Carbine”, Serial No. 286110
• Stock - Like the 1898, the Stock is dirty though not as many dings and scrapes. The two things that jump out are the “Inlaided Dice”, (2&5 on the left side and 3&4 on the right). I assume someone’s personalization. I already asked the lady and she has no idea. Maybe someone on the forum has some insight on this. Buttstock Pad?
• Cartouche. I have yet to be able to make out an Inspection Cartouche in any light.
• Proof “P”. I thought the night that I found the “P” on the 1898 I also found one on the Cabine, but I haven’t found it since, so I’m assuming it was my eyes.
• Barrel Length, 22”. Measured with a wooden dowel inserted down the barrel till it hit the bolt face, marked then measured the dowel.
• Barrel Bore. Again I ran a Digital Borescope down the barrel and record it. Nothing jumped out at me other than it was also dirty. I could see the rifling, but it was not as distinct as the1898. Again, I’ll show the video to Mike on Sunday and get his opinion.
• Magazine Gate, Bolt, Safety and Trigger all seem to operate normally and smoothly.
• Magazine Cutoff, missing.
• Rear Sight – Haven’t found that one in either of the books.
• Front Sight – I really want to hear what you have to say about that one.
• Lastly the Sling.

Thanks again in advance for all your inputs and opinions.
Dean
Attachments
1RSC.jpg
1RSC.jpg (213.04 KiB) Viewed 747 times
2RSC.jpg
2RSC.jpg (247.56 KiB) Viewed 747 times
3RSC.jpg
3RSC.jpg (269.19 KiB) Viewed 747 times
4RSC.jpg
4RSC.jpg (281.22 KiB) Viewed 747 times
5RSC.jpg
5RSC.jpg (233.65 KiB) Viewed 747 times
Last edited by ScandiHooligan on Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ScandiHooligan
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Florida

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by ScandiHooligan »

More Pics
Attachments
6RSC.jpg
6RSC.jpg (220.96 KiB) Viewed 747 times
7RSC.jpg
7RSC.jpg (176.44 KiB) Viewed 747 times
8RSC.jpg
8RSC.jpg (178.78 KiB) Viewed 747 times
9RSC.jpg
9RSC.jpg (156.29 KiB) Viewed 747 times
10RSC.jpg
10RSC.jpg (220.2 KiB) Viewed 747 times

User avatar
ScandiHooligan
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Florida

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by ScandiHooligan »

Last Pics
Attachments
11RSC.jpg
11RSC.jpg (185.77 KiB) Viewed 747 times
12RSC.jpg
12RSC.jpg (175.62 KiB) Viewed 747 times

User avatar
butlersrangers
Posts: 9827
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by butlersrangers »

Quick Observations:

The model 1899 is a carbine, apparently with its original barrel.

The front-sight on the carbine appears to be an original model 1899 carbine sight base. It has been 'encased' in what appears to be Lead Soft-Solder.
An improvised 'folding-ring/hood' has been made from a lock-washer. A commercial front-sight blade is pinned in the original base.

The rear sight is a homemade base & commercial dovetailed 'open' barrel-sight. The base is either screwed or sweat-soldered to the barrel.

The Dice both rolled "7", a homemade 'Good Luck' ornamentation, that along with the rubber recoil pad, ruined an original carbine stock.

An interesting Krag 'folk art' American Deer Rifle. I like it at $250 to 300!

The stock was heavily sanded, magazine cut-off lever is missing (a $20 part), and rifle sling-swivels were likely added by a civilian owner.

The model 1898 rifle has a model 1901 rear-sight and correct hand-guard. It appears to have been stored in a damp environment which has caused rust and pitting.
The rifle appears correct. I would estimate a $650 to $700 value on the rifle.

The actual bore condition influences the value and utility of these Krags.
Since you have them on loan, it would help your decision making if you removed the bolts and cleaned the bores.

IMO - Offers ranging from $800 to $1,000 (for the pair) would be fair to the widow. A gun shop would only offer $500, or probably less, and maybe not even want them.

Condition makes them common neglected utility guns. But, I always try to be generous to widows.

Whig
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:53 am

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by Whig »

Very interesting. I would have no desire to own either of these. In offering my opinion, I would pass and save my money to buy one very nice condition Krag rifle for a little more than you might offer for both of these. If she would take $500 for both just to get rid of them, maybe. But there are very nice condition Krags out there a'plenty! Thanks for sharing, though! You may be in love with these and have no problem paying more to own both. The rifle may be a good shooting Krag if the bore has a lot of rifling left. Good luck!

User avatar
Dick Hosmer
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by Dick Hosmer »

I second Whig's comments. Sadly, they have been abused - albeit in different ways - beyond salvation. I have never seen a receiver as pitted as that on the rifle.

User avatar
butlersrangers
Posts: 9827
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan

Re: Two Krags, (1898 &1899) By Any Other Name Are Still Jorgensen's

Post by butlersrangers »

There is a problem with the rifle.

It appears the rough exterior of the rifle and looking at things on my small laptop screen made me miss seeing that the rifle is now 'wearing' a model 1901 carbine rear-sight.

I wonder if the original sight of the sadly altered carbine was swapped onto the rifle, long ago?

$250 sight + $200 rifle stock + $100 handguard .... the falling value of the dollar ... I don't know ... I like playing with 'junk guns' and helping someone out.

I wonder how the bores look, if cleaned? That carbine metal might be salvageable? ... Oh, putting a value on neglected guns is tricky?

I would not hesitate at $600 for the pair, with unknown bore condition.
Attachments
a carbine sight.jpg
a carbine sight.jpg (52.66 KiB) Viewed 693 times

Post Reply