Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

U.S. Military Krags
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butlersrangers
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by butlersrangers »

The model 1902 rifle rear-sight BASE has the highest 'curved' elevation-ramp of all the "Dickson" sights - (model 1898 carbine & rifle and model 1902 carbine & rifle).

These various sight bases are easy to identify if you look at the type of spring for the 'leaf' and note the location of the 'leaf' in relationship to the top of the 'curved' ramp.
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Krag model 1902 rifle sight - relationship of leaf to ramp.jpg
Krag model 1902 rifle sight - relationship of leaf to ramp.jpg (154.6 KiB) Viewed 519 times
Krag spring Model-1902 sight leaf.jpg
Krag spring Model-1902 sight leaf.jpg (51.24 KiB) Viewed 519 times
Krag model 1902 sight-spring.jpg
Krag model 1902 sight-spring.jpg (64.51 KiB) Viewed 519 times
Krag spring model 1898 sight leaf.jpg
Krag spring model 1898 sight leaf.jpg (3.35 KiB) Viewed 519 times
krag model 1898 sight-spring.jpg
krag model 1898 sight-spring.jpg (76.71 KiB) Viewed 519 times

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butlersrangers
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by butlersrangers »

The shortest 'curved' elevation-ramp (on a 'Dickson' Krag sight) is found on the carbine version of the model 1898 sight. Note how 'the leaf stands proud' above the elevation-ramp.

(The 1902 carbine-sight and 1898 rifle-sight have bases with an elevation-ramp, that is just a hair taller, than the fully 'folded-down' leaf. It is important to check the spring-type to ID these bases.
The 1902 carbine-sight, as with all carbine-sights, is an area where you need to show caution against fakery).

As 'Whig' has noted, the most popular Krag sights for target shooting are the model 1901 and model 1902.

As a matter of fact, in the early 1900's the Ordnance Department simplified things by ordering that versions of these two sight models replace all other Krag sights on rifles and carbines,
when arms were subjected to inspection and repair.
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krag ng 1898c (2).jpg
krag ng 1898c (2).jpg (517.7 KiB) Viewed 517 times
carbine sight 1902 a.jpg
carbine sight 1902 a.jpg (115.21 KiB) Viewed 517 times
carbine sight 1902 b.jpg
carbine sight 1902 b.jpg (118.26 KiB) Viewed 517 times
sight-screws 1901 and 1902.JPG
sight-screws 1901 and 1902.JPG (370.48 KiB) Viewed 518 times

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P0H0
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by P0H0 »

Thanks for the info on the 1902 sight from GB. I contacted the seller and he stopped shipment and refunded me.

Is this a correct 1902 sight?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195533473497? ... media=COPY

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P0H0
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by P0H0 »

Thanks Fred! I’ll checkout the Gun smith screws at Brownells after I talk with the CMP Custom Shop.

Whig
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by Whig »

The ebay sight you are asking about is a correct Model 1902 sight without the Sgt Peep addition. The base spring base is curved correctly as the Model 1902 base spring should be.

Do you have any Krag reference books? There are 4 good ones. Poyer is the best for beginners with a ton of info. better ones are Mallory and Brophy and, if you're really into Krags, Joe Farmer has the newest one out which is very interesting and has great research information. If you don't have any, get Poyer's book on ebay for around $20.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by butlersrangers »

Sean - I agree with the assessment by 'Whig' of the eBay model 1902 rear-sight, that you are asking about.

I have always avoided buying anything from that particular eBay 'seller'. It is a personal 'pet peeve'.

I have noticed over the past 15 years that he has destroyed a lot of complete Krags and the history they could reveal, on a frequent basis.
He clearly buys Krags weekly, takes them apart and sells the parts on eBay to maximize his profits.

I don't mind someone selling Krag parts from a rifle or carbine that has been butchered, sportered, or damaged in the past.
But, this 'operator' has destroyed a whole bunch of 'shootable', entry level, and collectible Krags.

This all goes against my ethics. I try not to encourage his behavior.

p.s. I'm not trying to be in business, but, I do have an extra model 1902 rifle sight, that I would swap or sell to you for a reasonable amount. Use the KCA 'PM' feature to contact me, if you are interested.

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P0H0
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by P0H0 »

Whig -
… my favorite rear sight is the Model 1901 sight with all of the peep holes and slide. I have found this to give me the best ability to adjust reliably the elevation and windage. It's just worked better for me. I have used this for shooting mainly 100-300 yards. Open sights on this specific Model 1898 Krag made in 1903 has given 1 1/2 MOA at my best, so far. That's not every time, of course, but the best grouping that I have been able to reproduce numerous times.
I do love the idea of having an accurate sight. What load are using?

I have ordered in a few hundred rounds of 30-40 Krag 220 Grain Round Nose (~1900 FPS).

I may try adjusting the blade height to get the correct elevation.
Do you have any Krag reference books? There are 4 good ones. Poyer is the best for beginners with a ton of info. better ones are Mallory and Brophy and, if you're really into Krags, Joe Farmer has the newest one out which is very interesting and has great research information. If you don't have any, get Poyer's book on ebay for around $20.
I do not own any books on the Krag as of yet. I’ll check out the Poyers on eBay.

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P0H0
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by P0H0 »

Ok Whig — I went ahead and bought an actual new copy of The Krag Rifle Story (Frank Mallory) 2nd Edition. Figured it was a last chance offer — at least until a third edition is released ;)
A wealth of information for the Krag collector. Including, Models and variations, sights, bayonets, accoutrements, ammunition, serial numbers and much more. 8 1/2 X 11, hardcover, photos, illus, 343pp. Originally published in 1979, (2nd Edition Printed 2001) long out of print, but these are brand new (never sold) copies from 2001 we found hiding in our warehouse.
I’ll be doing the deep dive into the Krag history soon.

Good thing I’m divorced already 😆
Last edited by P0H0 on Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Whig
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by Whig »

For most of my regular shooting with my Krag rifle, I use a standard load for 220 grain Hornady .308" bullets and 40.0 grains IMR-4350. The OAL can vary a lot depending on just how you load or what rifle you use. I set mine at 3.080 inches. I have measured the chamber of my Krag and the chamber throat for the rifle I use the most is not worn much. I have gotten great accuracy with my COAL set at 3.080.

I do use Spitzer bullets sometimes and a few others with different loads. Sometimes Spitzer bullets won't feed through the magazine of a Krag rifle and have to be loaded one at a time. I have never had that problem with any of mine but some people do. The load above with the 220 gr. bullets is a pretty standard load which works great for most Krags. Obviously, a lot of people with more experience than I have, have been using this load for a long time. Who am I to complain about something that works!? There are many other loads people use. We have a reloading section for that on KCA you can research if you want. (The .30-40 Krag ammunition designation is an old Trap Door and earlier black powder designation of a load for a .30 caliber bullet with 40 grains of powder. Still works for Krags today with smokeless powder!)

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P0H0
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Re: Does the 1898 and 1902 sight use the same base?

Post by P0H0 »

Great information about potential feeding issues with spritzer bullets — I went with the 220 grain Round Nose for historical accuracy. I do plan on also trying some 180 grain spritzer. I’ll check out the reloading section soon. I’m planning on heading down that road in the future due to the difficulty in finding Krag ammunition.

Is there any worry with modern commercial rounds exceeding safety limits of the Krag single locking lug — as discovered with the hot 1898 rounds at 2200 FPS?

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