Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
I was thinking about picking one up as a shooter to go along with my Krag but I have a few questions - particularly reliability and parts availability, as well as how to reload for these. Also, I found an example and was wondering if someone could take a look at a few pictures and give me some advice on it. Thanks
Re: Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
New Armies are a good go along for a Krag but do have a few curves for a shooter. One, the action is a bit weak and they tend to shoot loose. Before buying anything, confirm that the lock-up is without slop or you may split a barrel, destroy the crane and oh yeah you hand is in the mix too. Two, cylinder rotation is counter-clockwise and works against cylinder indexing/lock-up. Colt shed this feature after the New Army.
The New Army in the .38 long version continued Civil War internal barrel dimensions and so requires a larger bullet than the present day .358 standard. New ammo is available but if its loaded with hard lead and .358 bullets it will not be accurate and will keyhole. True .38 long molds are scarce and expensive. The original .38 long was a heel-based design with the front end of the bullet the same diameter as the outside shell casing. The reduced diameter heel was the part that fit inside the case where it was crimped in place just like .22 rimfire rounds. Your best bet for reloading is to use a fast powder, soft lead and a hollow base design that will expand a .358 bullet enough to fill the bore. About 1903, Colt adopted smaller, present day inside diameter specifications for barrels so later guns may fare better with "modern" dimensioned bullets. Slug your bore to verify.
Oh yes, one last caveat. The cylinders were through bored and can physically chamber the far too powerful .38 special round--maybe even some .357 magnum rounds. Some Armies have been mistreated in this way so be wary when considering your purchase and NEVER consider using any ammo but .38 long in a New Army.
The New Army in the .38 long version continued Civil War internal barrel dimensions and so requires a larger bullet than the present day .358 standard. New ammo is available but if its loaded with hard lead and .358 bullets it will not be accurate and will keyhole. True .38 long molds are scarce and expensive. The original .38 long was a heel-based design with the front end of the bullet the same diameter as the outside shell casing. The reduced diameter heel was the part that fit inside the case where it was crimped in place just like .22 rimfire rounds. Your best bet for reloading is to use a fast powder, soft lead and a hollow base design that will expand a .358 bullet enough to fill the bore. About 1903, Colt adopted smaller, present day inside diameter specifications for barrels so later guns may fare better with "modern" dimensioned bullets. Slug your bore to verify.
Oh yes, one last caveat. The cylinders were through bored and can physically chamber the far too powerful .38 special round--maybe even some .357 magnum rounds. Some Armies have been mistreated in this way so be wary when considering your purchase and NEVER consider using any ammo but .38 long in a New Army.
Re: Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
Thanks a lot Jimmy, very helpful.
Regarding lockup, I did read this problem plagued the New Armys. If the timing is off, would I be able to rotate the cylinder by hand before each shot and safely be able to fire the revolver? I don't know much about revolvers, and even less about the early DA/SA Colts. I understand there are very few gunsmiths who can work on these, and I imagine the cost for such work could easily supersede the value of the revolver.
Regarding the ammo, I did read that the bullet used in the .38 long colt is unique. I imagine the 158gr .38 SWC bullets I use in .38spl/.357mag would be very undersized, however the ballastics of .38spl and .38 long colt are similar (I am not advocating shooting the former in the later). However, could I load up a very mild .38spl load simply to shoot a New Army a few times a year? Accuracy is not of main concern at 7yds or so. I've read that this can be done just for plinking.
Regarding lockup, I did read this problem plagued the New Armys. If the timing is off, would I be able to rotate the cylinder by hand before each shot and safely be able to fire the revolver? I don't know much about revolvers, and even less about the early DA/SA Colts. I understand there are very few gunsmiths who can work on these, and I imagine the cost for such work could easily supersede the value of the revolver.
Regarding the ammo, I did read that the bullet used in the .38 long colt is unique. I imagine the 158gr .38 SWC bullets I use in .38spl/.357mag would be very undersized, however the ballastics of .38spl and .38 long colt are similar (I am not advocating shooting the former in the later). However, could I load up a very mild .38spl load simply to shoot a New Army a few times a year? Accuracy is not of main concern at 7yds or so. I've read that this can be done just for plinking.
Re: Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
No. Even a light 38spl load is at the limit for a 100 year old 38 long. Use 38 long data, Lee makes the dies (the cheap $30 ones which are fine for occasional use). I have success with the 148gr HBWC, it will expand enough to fill the bore. DeChristopher has parts, for mine I had to replace the hand. And yes, working on the insides of old colts is not for the faint of heart. I never want to open up mine agai
Re: Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
Dear Marcus99,
I was not really talking about timing issues when I cautioned against buying a revolver with poor lock-up. The New Armies had a weak design that with age frequently results in poor cylinder lock-up even if properly timed. My understanding is that the problem led to Colt introducing the second set of cylinder notches that is a distinctive feature of New Armies. To evaluate the lock-up, bring the revolver to full clock [not a typo, the real word keeps getting rejected by this site] and check the rotational "wiggle" of the cylinder. If there is too much wiggle, upon firing the bullet can impact the rear face of the barrel--not a pleasant experience. There's no practical way to ensure that a gun with loose lock-up can be safely fired. Such a gun would require repair. Parts are still available here and there but require a smith with the depth to make repairs. It's easier to buy a New Army that is still tight and not worn-out.
The counter-clockwise rotation of New Armies was a problem because it tended to force the cylinder to the left and away from the frame increasing lock-up problems. Going back to the traditional clockwise rotation in subsequent models contributed to more solid lock-up as the cylinder is forced in rotation towards the frame. There must have been a reason that Colt used a counter-clockwise rotating cylinder, but in practice, the idea was a bust.
The groups that I get with factory 38 long cartridges are pretty big. Most do arrive somewhere in the target, and some don't even keyhole. I have gotten better but not great results with soft hollow-base .358 bullets. I've had poor results with hard alloys in hollow or solid based .358 designs, as well as soft uncrimped heel base bullets. Crimping heel-based bullets is not as easy as it might first seem. Remember, the front end of the bullet is the same diameter as the cartridge case. A conventional die won't do the job. In short, I'm still working on figuring-out what our grandfathers knew.
I was not really talking about timing issues when I cautioned against buying a revolver with poor lock-up. The New Armies had a weak design that with age frequently results in poor cylinder lock-up even if properly timed. My understanding is that the problem led to Colt introducing the second set of cylinder notches that is a distinctive feature of New Armies. To evaluate the lock-up, bring the revolver to full clock [not a typo, the real word keeps getting rejected by this site] and check the rotational "wiggle" of the cylinder. If there is too much wiggle, upon firing the bullet can impact the rear face of the barrel--not a pleasant experience. There's no practical way to ensure that a gun with loose lock-up can be safely fired. Such a gun would require repair. Parts are still available here and there but require a smith with the depth to make repairs. It's easier to buy a New Army that is still tight and not worn-out.
The counter-clockwise rotation of New Armies was a problem because it tended to force the cylinder to the left and away from the frame increasing lock-up problems. Going back to the traditional clockwise rotation in subsequent models contributed to more solid lock-up as the cylinder is forced in rotation towards the frame. There must have been a reason that Colt used a counter-clockwise rotating cylinder, but in practice, the idea was a bust.
The groups that I get with factory 38 long cartridges are pretty big. Most do arrive somewhere in the target, and some don't even keyhole. I have gotten better but not great results with soft hollow-base .358 bullets. I've had poor results with hard alloys in hollow or solid based .358 designs, as well as soft uncrimped heel base bullets. Crimping heel-based bullets is not as easy as it might first seem. Remember, the front end of the bullet is the same diameter as the cartridge case. A conventional die won't do the job. In short, I'm still working on figuring-out what our grandfathers knew.
Re: Colt New Army - Anyone into them?
Look what followed me home:
