Gas Checked Lead Bullets and Krags

[Marcus99]

Buying the components I'll need to reload for my Krag and these gas checks are totally new to me. I want to use lead bullets because they are cheaper and apparently Krags like them, but I see lead bullets with and without gas checks (presumably the later come without the gas checks but provide the option of installing them). I need bullets sized to about .311 or .312 since my bore slugs to .3108 and I have come across a few expensive jacketed ones sized to .312 but they are roughly $30 per 100 which means I will seldom be shooting my Krag. But I did find these on midway;

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2046333651/hunters-supply-hard-cast-bullets-30-caliber-311-diameter-193-grain-lead-flat-nose-gas-check

$68 per 500 is a lot more to my liking, I'll actually be able to afford to shoot my Krag. They are on the heavier side, round nose and sized just a bit larger than the bore. But at what point or fps do I definitely need a gas checked lead bullet? Can I get away with the above for fun at the range? This is in a real 1899 Krag carbine that I want to punch paper at 100yards. Thanks

[Parashooter]

Gas checks help control lead fouling when cast bullets are driven over about 1500 fps. At lower velocities they are generally superfluous but sometimes enhance accuracy.

Jacketed bullets, especially those with plenty of bearing surface, are usually OK even when a bit under groove diameter (not bore diameter, that's the diameter between lands). If you haven't tried .308" jacketed bullets in your Krag you might be surprised how well they can shoot. That is, after all, the nominal bullet diameter of GI and commercial .30/40 ammunition.

With cast bullets, it's desirable that the rear of the bullet fit the rifle's throat (usually a bit over groove diameter) and critical that the nose is a snug fit between the lands. If the nose is undersize, accuracy can be elusive.

[FatWhiteMan]

If you haven't tried .308" jacketed bullets in your Krag you might be surprised how well they can shoot. That is, after all, the nominal bullet diameter of GI and commercial .30/40 ammunition.

Agreed. I would at least try that before I went with cast/gas checks. The original .30 Government load was a .308, 220 Gr. RN bullet. Try it and you might just find that your Krag really likes them. The throat was designed with them in mind.

[Marcus99]

Thanks for the replies. See I want to use lead though as I save a ton of money by shooting lead in all my guns except my AR. If you guys really think I should stick with jacketed I will, but it was my understanding that Krags worked really well with cast lead bullets.

I looked on midway at .308 jacketed round nose bullets in the 220gr weight and they're all $30+ per 100. No doubt that those are fine and necessary choices for hunting, but I don't hunt, all I want to do is have some fun punching paper at 100 yards and I'm not trying to win any competitions at that either.

If I did go with the lead bullets I linked above, I'm assuming I would need to put gas checks on them since most loads for Krags fall somewhere around 2000fps?

P.S. parashooter, do you have that parkhurst clip loading system that is shown in your avatar? My understanding is that they are very rare.

[Rands]

I also use the .308 220 grain round nose bullets for Krags. The 220 grain round nose has a very long bearing surface, and I have found this bullet type, propelled at or near the original military velocity, to shoot quite well.

I have used both the Hornady and Sierra 220 grain .308 bullets, both with very good results.

[Parashooter]

If I did go with the lead bullets I linked above, I'm assuming I would need to put gas checks on them since most loads for Krags fall somewhere around 2000fps?

P.S. parashooter, do you have that parkhurst clip loading system that is shown in your avatar? My understanding is that they are very rare.

1. For "paper punching" at 100 yards, there's no need for that much velocity. 1100 to 1500 fps is plenty and can work well without gas checks. Don't, however, expect outstanding results with commercial cast bullets, which seldom fit as well as those you cast and size yourself.

2. That's not the Parkhurst system. Home-grown charger.

[Rands]

Parashooter:

I know it's off the thread line, but have you put together any posts concerning your home grown charger? Simply amazing!

[Parashooter]

See http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?23966-Shot-my-Krag-in-CMP-Vintage-Military-Rifle-today...&p=185108#post185108

[fred]

Marcus99

I shoot lead in my Krags almost exclusively for the same reason you state. Although, it might take a little experimentation and trying different bullets and loads. Cast bullets can provide excellent accuracy in these rifles and I cast my own. It sounds like you are looking for already cast bullets and that could be a crap shoot. Like another poster stated, the nose should just ride on the lands, while the rear of the bullet should fill the grooves.

At lower velocities you would certainly not need the gas-checks and AFAIK you need a bullet-sizer to install most gas checks. Don't believe you can install them any other way, so keep that extra expense/work in mind.

I cast the Lee 200 gr. TL gas check bullet sized .001" over groove diameter (slug your bore if you haven't already). I install gas checks during the sizing operation. I load these over 16 grs. of Aliant 2400. This is a time-honored load for these rifles and is very accurate and has plenty of power to go all the way through paper at 100 yds. :)

daveboy

[Marcus99]

Thanks Fred. That sounds beyond what I am set up for now, although I applaud you for making bullets of that quality, I bet you can drive tacks with those. I checked my Lyman 49th and it says bullet mold 311284 was originally made for the .30-40 Krag, fortunately Montanabullets sells those gas checked. However I just bought a big bundle of equipment on Midwayusa so I can finally start reloading for my rifles. I figured to save shipping I would try these 220gr Jacketed Hornady .308's. If I can't find these locally I will probably buy a few hundred of those 311284's from Montanabullets

Also in my manual I see IMR 4895 listed for both the 69gr SMK I am going to be shooting in my AR and for the 220gr Hornady for my Krag, apparently with good results in both rounds. That makes me happy because I can keep it simple and stick with one powder for both rounds.

BTW, this whole thing about checking rifle rounds in case gauges is new to me, never had to do that when I reload for my pistols. Can I just measure the case and finished round with my caliper, or is there something I am missing? I didn't even see a case gauge for .30-40 Krag.