1899 22"

[tanker]

This forum is great, glad I found it surfing. I have an 1899 I purchased in 1977 for $75. It had a sporterized stock and no safety. Still had 1901 rifle rear sights and rifle front site blade also has turned down barrel front for bayonet and in fact have purchased a brass spring loaded rifle cap/cover that fits perfect. Serial #230497, I have picked up a 1902 cartouche carbine stock and 1901 "no hump" handguard for it. I do have a question, I have only recently noticed a very faint discoloration on the barrel. The imprint starts 3 1/8" back from the muzzle and is approx 3/8" wide then further back approx 1 1/4" another 3/8" wide band imprint exists. Both imprints go only around the top 180 degrees of the barrel. The imprints are not rust, rather they are impressions of darker blueing as opposed to the surrounding barrel. After reading and rereading my Brophy and Poyer books I conclude this is a possible Constabulary conversion. I know of no other carbine with a turned down muzzle and the imprints suggest to me a forward barrel band to accommodate a bayonet. Since the original stock was butchered I cannot confrim anything about it but the metal and signature images on the barrel have me intrigued. Thoughts and insight greatly appreciated since after almost 30 years I consider this a keeper regardless of it's mystery lineage.

[Dick Hosmer]

Tanker,

I think you are 100% correct on your ID. The marks on your barrel had to have been from the upper band. Back in the 70s, NO ONE was "faking" scarce Krags. Many were sporterized, but those that were still military were basically pretty honest. As far as is known, NO actual "Constabulary" guns, altered in Manila, exist in the US. In fact, given the Japanese occupation, and the passage of time, there MAY not be any left, anywhere. The guns we see here, of the very same configuration, were made up for college ROTC use, probably about 7000 of them, though they are quite scarce today. You can see a picture of mine (227713) at www.picturetrail.com/sa4570af. The most often seen stock cartouche is the small block "JFC".

[tanker]

By golly that's a bell ringer! I think I'm on the hunt for a '98 rifle stock and front band with the small JFC. I didn't ever put the ROTC conversion and the constabulary conversion together and come up with essentially the same rifle. I knew the constabulary's were unheard of here stateside and now I have a logical travel route for mine through ROTC dissemination. It all seems to fit now with this info, thanks!

[Dick Hosmer]

Hate to rain on your parade right after I "gave you the route" as it were, but I do not think you will EVER find such a stock on the loose. That is the rare part of the gun - the only Krags with that cartouche ARE the ROTC guns. And, apparently, only those converted at SA have it. Guns done elsewhere would retain the original cartouche - presence of the JFC is what "makes" any given specimen, since the mods COULD be done by Bubba.

I think you will have to make your own. Why not pick up a Bubba rifle stock, which has been ruined anyhow, and make the forend? The band will be no problem, and not expensive, but you will have to enlarge it a bit - SA used a press and mandrel, but I'm sure it could be enlarged the few thousandths required, with careful filing. Since your gun clearly WAS at one time an honest ROTC piece, I classify such work as a "repair", not creating a "fake".

The practice of "stock-stretching" is one on which many collectors disagree. I take a SLIGHTLY more lenient position than some others. To me there is a NIGHT AND DAY difference between doing what I suggested above, and starting out with a regular 1899 Carbine and turning down the barrel! THAT is FRAUD, pure and simple. But, with ANY such repair work, you should permanently mark the inside of the barrel channel, and you ABSOLUTELY MUST disclose ANY such work to a prospective buyer. Personally, I have never stretched a stock, nor would I purchase such a gun, but I started 35 years ago and I recognize that, in this day of truly astronomical prices, such REPAIRS can return a few of the mutilated scarcer guns to displayable "representative" condition, for those collectors who might not otherwise be able to find a specimen.

[tanker]

Thanks for your input, btw it was my intention to do just as you suggest. Since I do not intend to sell the gun it will not be a problem for me to live with the non-SA stock as long as I can get it real close. The modifications to an original stock and front band won't tax my machine shop unduly and I'll at least end up with the look of the original. I am not a purest when it comes to firearms, rather I am a shooter who enjoys the look and feel of classic weapons. I am just really glad to know what direction to take this Krag since I have been attempting to get it close to original for so long. I've purchase a few weapons over the years and have never sold one so the true originality is for me alone to live with.

Thanks again for your sage insight.