Help Identitfing MY KRAG

[Jim_Barritt]

I have a KRAG rifle that was handed down to me from my farther. Here is a discription of my rifle. I have spent a few hours in your Forum and I think I can get some answers from experts as to what I have inherited. Any help, guidance and information would be greatly appreciated.
On the left side is stamped US 1894 Springfield Armory (serial number) 285. Starting at the muzzle, the barrel measures 30 inches with bolt closed. The front of the barrel is flat, and the front sight is brazed on. Where the front sling swivel should be, there is a wood dowel. The outside of the barrel has all of the original blueing. There are two very small rough spots but no bare metal. It has lightened with age. the inside of the barrel is spotless. I can see rifling from the front of the barrel to the breech opening. The rear band has a U stamped on it. The underside of the wood stock comes to with in 3 inches of the barrel The upper wood stock measures 20 5/8 inches from muzzle to to back of rear band. The rear sight goes to 1800 yards. The breech has some stain outside, but inside it is spotless. The loading door only has 30 to 40% blueing left due to being carried for hunting in the woods by my grandfather, farther, and myself. The last white tail deer was shot across a ten acre field with a 150 grain Spear bullet ten years ago. The left side of the stock has a cartouche.You can see it with the naked eye, but need a magnifying glass to read it. I am not accustom to cursive writing from 1894 era, so I am guessing what the first two letters may be. The first is either an A,I, or J. The second letter is a M or W. The third letter is definitenly a P. Under the letters is the year 1894. Behind the tigger guard is a circle with a P in it. This is plainly visible with the naked eye. The butt is flat. The cleaning rod channel is open from muzzle to breech. The stock has numerous nicks and scratches in it and wood has an almost red tint to it. The sling is leather, But I don't kwon how to tell if it is original.
Along with the rifle there is a bayonet with the year 1895 on one side and US on the other side by the handle. The bayonet scabbard is rough in spots. The belt hook swivels 360 degrees.
I have had a lot of questions go through my mind as i read through your internet information, and I have applied for membership. My daughter has my camera this week, but I will have pictures soon. I have a few questions that you maybe able to help me with now, and I will be willing to answer your questions.
1. Where can I find a cleaning rod?
2. A friend told me they made 3 sights for a model 92, if that is what I have. The first sight went to 1900, the second went to 1800, and the third sight went to 1800 with a lower graduation than the second sight. He thinks my gun falls within the serial number for the second sight because it is higher than the third sight in the pictures he saw, but he cant remember where he saw it in the internet. From my discription, can you tell me what sight is on my rifle?
3. Who or what kind of appraiser should I have look at my rifle and do you feel I should have this done?
4. I need help finding out what I have for sure and how much insurance should I put on it?


Thank you all for your help.


Jim

[wrmkrag]

Jim,
Glad you joined the KCA and congrats on having a Model of 1892 Krag rifle.
Question: Where can I find a cleaning rod? Answer: An original is almost impossible to find. I've only found one in 55+ years of collecting and it had a drill bit welded on the end.
On the web, GO: www.ssfirearms.com and look on the second page of the Krag parts. They have repo's for sale -- with a 285 serial number I'd pop for the brass tipped rod -- That serial number is low enough where the rifle MAY ??? have originally had the brass tipped rod. Neither rod will be correct, but the brass one will look better.
Model of 1892 Krag rifles used a rear sight that had 19 stamped on the top left of the leaf. The sights with 18 stamped were for the M'96 rifles and were not ORIGINAL to the M'92 rifles. From you discription of the sight on your rifle it is one of the variations of the M'96 sight. A valid replacement is no big problem -- the correct handguard may be a problem if your's is wrong.
NOTE: When you are talking to S&S Firearms ask if they have a copy of the 1894 manual that would be appropriat for your rifle.
APPRAISAL/APPRAISER: Step one will have to be to determine exactly what you own. Ready:
STOCK: The script letters in the cartouche should be S.W.P. (Samuel W. Porter) and the 1894 date is correct.
The measurements you list indicate that the stock is correct IF the total length is 46".
Your statement that, "Where the front sling swivel should be ???, there is a wood dowel," raises a flag. What do you mean about, "fount sling swivel should be." Is it missing. The only reason that I can think of for there to be a "dowel" in that area would be IF the stock has been converted/upgrade to M'96 configuration and and attempt was made to take it back to M'92.
BARREL: Flat muzzel, correct. "Front sight is brazed on" raises a ??? The fount sight was brazed into the barrel. Check that out.
RECEIVER: Looking forward to the pictures. They will answer questions about whether any modifications were made to the receiver. Specifically, "is there a hold open notch milled into the right/rear of the receiver?" and "have the recesses for the cut-off spring spindle been modified?"
BOLT GROUP: The pictures will answer the question of this group. Of most interest will be the shape of the "lug" on the cocking piece.
Give Up?: Sounds like you have a very interesting Krag and possibly a darn scarce/rare rifle. The bad news is that they are back in production.
Bill Mook

[Jim_Barritt]

Bill
Thank you for all the information.

Regarding front sight, there is no brazing on the barrel also there are not any screws to hold it in place so I'm assuming that it is brazed in to the barrel, as you said.
Regarding length of stock it is 46 inches, over all length is 49 1/8 inches.

Regarding front sling swivel by the muzzel, the swivel is gone, the wooden dowel is where the screw would go through.

Regarding the cartouche, now that you told me I can see S.W.P.

Bill do you know of anyone in or around Michigan that I could take this to and have them look at it, because I am not sure what you mean when you talk about the hold open notch, and the cut-off spring spindle.

They may be making 30-40's again but they will never make one like this one.

I still shoot it twice a year when I clean it. It is still a great rifle to shoot.

Bill thank you again I have learned much today. Sorry about taking so long to reply but had to take wife and kids fishing or it 100 lashes with a wet noodle.

Thank you again
Jim

[wrmkrag]

The closest really knowledgeable Krag collector that I know of in your area would be: Tom Pearce who lives in Berea, OH. Tom is a charter member of this association and may be monitoring our exchange.
The wood dowel replacing the front band screw has me puzzled -- we'll have to wait for the pics.
Bill

[Richard_Sherman]

Bill:

What did you mean by "back in production"? Is someone actually making a new Model 92 or do we have a "reverse aging" worker out there making 92s out of low s/n 92/96s?

Keep up the fire

Richard Sherman

[Tom_Pearce]

Bill,
Suggest you look in the photo section of the Krag Collectors site and scroll down to "Model 1892 Rifles".
Compare serial Number 233's picture to your rifle and let us know your findings.
I do attend Novi, MI gun show on occasion, maybe we can get together. Would love to see your rifle.
Thanks,
Tom Pearce (Krags-R-us)

[wrmkrag]

Richard,
My "back in production" comment was based on some "cut-and-paste" Krag model/types that are showing up around the country. Most noticeable are the carbines (fake M'96 sights) etc., with ??? cartouches.
In the past year at least 2 put together M'92 have shown up and sadly sold.
Bill

[Jim_Barritt]

Bill
??? When you are talking about the hold open notch are you talking about the lever to go from MAG. fed to single shot or is it something different.
The wood dowel is 5 inches down from the muzzle right below the tab that holds the bayonet. I see Tom is here I'll talk to him.


Tom
My name is Jim I am the one with the 1892???. I did look at the picures, mine is not that shiny and has some stain or the blueing is gone on the loading door and has nicks and scratchs in the stock from shooting deer by three generations
I live in Traverse City Mi I would be glad to travel to Novi to see what you think of my rifle. Let me know when it is and I'll see what I can do. Or let me know where Berea OH is and maybe I could bing it down.


Thanks to All
Jim

[Tom_Pearce]

Jim,
Does the front barrel band of #233 pictured resemble what is on your rifle? Is there a place to store a cleaning rod on your rifle like #233?
Looking ahead at the Mich. Gun Show listings, the next Novi, MI Gun Show would be Sept. 20/21 followed by Nov. 29/30.
Maybe we can meet at one of these shows?
You can email me at - mod1892tjp@email.msn.com -
Tom Pearce

[Jim_Barritt]

Tom
I looked at the all the pictures and picture #4 under a maginfing glass on my comuter looks just like it.

As for a place for a cleaning rod, there is a channel from the front band through the wood stock that measures 26 5/8 inches.

As for Gun shows it will have to be sept. Nov is deer hunting with 3 brothers. I will email you as it gets closer.
Should have pictures by Fri. I will email you when they are in the picture board.

Can any one tell me how many picture I should send to the picture board

Thanks Jim