Well I did it again, I was sure I had seen someone do a good job of mounting the 03 front sight on a barrel by filing a step. Thought it was BR, and I could not find the thread, then thought it may have been carbonoutlaw as he has been posting some well done hand craftsmanship lately. Could not find it either, perhaps it was on another forum or I just dreamed about it.
How much has to come out by honing that it could work? Honing is a slow process .010 would take what would seem like an eternity. One or thousands would be arduous but possible for the patient.
Criterion Barrels
-
butlersrangers
- Posts: 9907
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Criterion Barrels
FredC - The thread you were looking for about "stepping" a barrel for a 1903 front-sight was 'under other firearms'.
I 'bumped' the thread that contains my primitive ('Khyber Pass') method.
I 'bumped' the thread that contains my primitive ('Khyber Pass') method.
Re: Criterion Barrels
Thanks BR. I was worrying about myself.
I get it now, you just would not do it to a new Criterion barrel. Your results made it look like I wasted $20,000 on my tool room lathe and made it look like I should have bought files instead. :-)
Are new Springfield front sights available, if so how much should be removed to fit on the correct portion of an unmolested carbine barrel at 22 inches?
Can you hear the gears turning?
I get it now, you just would not do it to a new Criterion barrel. Your results made it look like I wasted $20,000 on my tool room lathe and made it look like I should have bought files instead. :-)
Are new Springfield front sights available, if so how much should be removed to fit on the correct portion of an unmolested carbine barrel at 22 inches?
Can you hear the gears turning?
-
butlersrangers
- Posts: 9907
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Criterion Barrels
FredC:
The new 1903 "Springfield" (banded) front-sights are probably knock-offs that are made in China.
There seem to be lots of beat up originals floating around that could be rehabilitated with some file work and refinish.
I will have to get the old vernier out, later, and measure some parts to answer your questions on dimensions.
(FWIW - I don't mind 'tinkering', gambling, and experimenting on parts that are basically wrecked. But, filing on a nice new $200 barrel .... that's serious money)!
The new 1903 "Springfield" (banded) front-sights are probably knock-offs that are made in China.
There seem to be lots of beat up originals floating around that could be rehabilitated with some file work and refinish.
I will have to get the old vernier out, later, and measure some parts to answer your questions on dimensions.
(FWIW - I don't mind 'tinkering', gambling, and experimenting on parts that are basically wrecked. But, filing on a nice new $200 barrel .... that's serious money)!
-
psteinmayer
- Posts: 2692
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:31 am
Re: Criterion Barrels
There's a guy on Facebook named Richard Ling. Not sure if he's here on the KCA (if you are Rich, well done on being incognito, LOL). He regularly resurrects Krag... and always to an as issued condition. He never fakes anything or misrepresents/claims it's not resurrected. He's one of the good guys! Anyway, he has used Criterion barrels, and may know how to install the front sight to look accurate. Maybe look him up. He lives in Texas, BTW.
Re: Criterion Barrels
But I guess I don't need to tell you guys about this :)
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1337225773
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1337225773
Re: Criterion Barrels
Well the reminder of the old thread is welcome remember you are dealing with geezers here that forget stuff almost as fast as we learn new stuff. .030 makes it time consuming to sand, lap or hone.
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1586066654
The fact the new ones are not made by SA and knock offs may vary in outside dimensions would make building a fixture to bore them on a CNC lathe more difficult. A CNC could bore the taper to exactly match the barrel at 22 inches or any other point on the barrel. A fixture could be set up so the coordinates for the length would be repeatable. So it could be set up and small batches run from time to time. Not sure it would work with knock offs. If anyone wants to try it out send me an original and a knock off.
Toolroom lathe joke:
Originally Posted by Ray Behner
Your wife says, you love that stupid machine shop more than you love me, don't you?
YOU( truthfully) Just a place where I work.
Her: "You love that darned Lagun vertical mill more than you love me, don't you!"
You: (Truthfully) No! No I don't!
You: (Thinking silently to yourself) "Please, Lord, don't let her ask about the Hardinge HLV-H"
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1586066654
The fact the new ones are not made by SA and knock offs may vary in outside dimensions would make building a fixture to bore them on a CNC lathe more difficult. A CNC could bore the taper to exactly match the barrel at 22 inches or any other point on the barrel. A fixture could be set up so the coordinates for the length would be repeatable. So it could be set up and small batches run from time to time. Not sure it would work with knock offs. If anyone wants to try it out send me an original and a knock off.
Toolroom lathe joke:
Your wife says, you love that stupid machine shop more than you love me, don't you?
YOU( truthfully) Just a place where I work.
Her: "You love that darned Lagun vertical mill more than you love me, don't you!"
You: (Truthfully) No! No I don't!
You: (Thinking silently to yourself) "Please, Lord, don't let her ask about the Hardinge HLV-H"
Re: Criterion Barrels
I may have a knock off to contribute to the cause
-
butlersrangers
- Posts: 9907
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Criterion Barrels
I did some quick measurements this evening on some barrel diameters, at the muzzle.
I also measured a couple of 1903 'banded' front-sight bases that came off of something?
1. Original 22" Krag model 1898 carbine barrel - .653 inch diameter, just back of the muzzle/crown.
2. 1896 Krag rifle barrel, cut down to 22" with a Springfield 1903 front-sight. Barrel diameter is .655", just in front of sight band.
3. 1903 Springfield barrel cut to 21". I filed a 'step' on this barrel. 'Step' diameter is .650" to accept 1903 'banded' front-sight.
Two used 1903 Springfield front sight bases were measured:
1. Inside diameter varied from .642" to .648".
2. Inside diameter varied from .647" to .648".
I also measured a couple of 1903 'banded' front-sight bases that came off of something?
1. Original 22" Krag model 1898 carbine barrel - .653 inch diameter, just back of the muzzle/crown.
2. 1896 Krag rifle barrel, cut down to 22" with a Springfield 1903 front-sight. Barrel diameter is .655", just in front of sight band.
3. 1903 Springfield barrel cut to 21". I filed a 'step' on this barrel. 'Step' diameter is .650" to accept 1903 'banded' front-sight.
Two used 1903 Springfield front sight bases were measured:
1. Inside diameter varied from .642" to .648".
2. Inside diameter varied from .647" to .648".
Re: Criterion Barrels
Just checked a 1898 serial number 266380 at 21 and 22 inches and got .658 at 22 inches and .663 at 21 inches. This is a 30 inch barrel just marked the spots at the designate lengths. Looks like .005 taper to an inch needs to be considered.
With BR's measured example worrying the sight out with a 3/8 rod with a hack sawed split for wrapping with 240 grit wet or dry paper. Keep the paper wet with kerosene or WD 40 or some other light solvent. Maybe this would take a couple of hours. With mine example all day and a pile of paper. The older one with .030 needing to be removed several days, maybe grinding then lapping would work.
If anyone else has a couple of original and copied 1903 sights that they want to contribute to an experiment? You do need to know I am slow getting around to this stuff and it may take a month or two.
Boring these would take a day or so to make a fixture, once the fixture is in hand about an hour or less to set up. Two minutes to run one and change the next sight. The more done at a time the better.
With BR's measured example worrying the sight out with a 3/8 rod with a hack sawed split for wrapping with 240 grit wet or dry paper. Keep the paper wet with kerosene or WD 40 or some other light solvent. Maybe this would take a couple of hours. With mine example all day and a pile of paper. The older one with .030 needing to be removed several days, maybe grinding then lapping would work.
If anyone else has a couple of original and copied 1903 sights that they want to contribute to an experiment? You do need to know I am slow getting around to this stuff and it may take a month or two.
Boring these would take a day or so to make a fixture, once the fixture is in hand about an hour or less to set up. Two minutes to run one and change the next sight. The more done at a time the better.