1896 Carbine Questions

[Skirmisher]

First post here so greetings to everyone!
I have what appears to be a mostly original 1896 Carbine, serial number 39583, which pretty clearly has a replacement front sight. The blade is missing from that replacement sight so I plan to obtain a new base, blade and pin from S&S. Can anyone identify from the pictures what that front sight is from? I dont understand how it could even work since the indent where the blade should slide in is only a couple of millimeters deep and its impossible for a blade to reach down to where the pin hole is located!?

I believe the rifle was made in 1896 or 97. The cartouche is very faint and not legible. The proof mark is a bit stronger and is the fancy script P. All three ramrod pieces are in the butt trap. Bore is pretty good.

Id also appreciate any information anyone may have regarding this particular pieces history, value and any other comments of interest.

Thanks for any input.

Skirmisher

[Whig]

Skirmish- Welcome to the KCA where we love everything Krag! Not only have you joined an elite group of Krag owners but you have immediately joined the smaller group of Krag owners who have taken a picture of a nice Krag with your feet in the picture! Now, that's class!

Your Krag carbine looks nice but we need more pictures including the rear sight. The front sight has a hole drilled in the bottom of the base for some reason which is not original. It is missing the blade that is held in by a little pin.

Your Krag is a "Model 1896" carbine, as pictured on the receiver. That places it's date of manufacture somewhere in the mid to late 1896 area. Ones marked "1896", without the "Model" were made in Jan or Feb 1896 and some marked "1895" were made from June 1895 through Dec 1895.

Model 1896 Krag carbines are quite sought after. What's really important, though, is to have the original, correct rear carbine sight which is calibrated to 20 and has a "c" stamped on the top right of the slide above the 19 and on the right side of the base. If the slide is calibrated only to 18, it is a rifle rear sight and not correct for the M1896 carbine.

If you can give a little more history about your carbine and post some more pictures, we'll help to dissect it more. How's the bore look? I'm always concerned about the condition of the bore because many can be badly pitted with no rifling left. Pitting is OK if some good rifling remains for shooting.

Thanks for sharing and welcome again!

[butlersrangers]

'Skirmisher' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. Nice looking Krag.

It would appear you have a 'cut-down' model 1896 rifle (barreled/action) that someone put into a model 1896 carbine stock (and hand-guard).

IMHO - Your carbine stock, barrel-band, and hand-guard could probably fetch $600 to $700, from someone restoring a model 1896 carbine.

I venture to guess that your barrel is longer than the regulation 22 inch carbine barrel. It appears 're-crowned' and the front-sight base has been shortened (from the bottom) and re-attached to a cut-down rifle barrel.

BTW - The graduations on a model 1896 rifle sight go up to 18 (1,800 yards) a carbine sight goes to 20 (2,000 yards). Legitimate model 1896 carbine rear-sights sell for $500 to $600. The rifle version sells for $50 to $70.

Your serial number 39583 is outside the known range of numbers for model 1896 carbines.

p.s. - You made my rouge's gallery of: "Krag Owners with Feet".

attached photos: 1. Arrow indicates approximate carbine barrel length. 2. OP's feet.

[Whig]

Can you measure the barrel from the muzzle to the front of the closed bolt? Push a cleaning rod down the barrel until it hits the front of the closed bolt and measure that. A carbine has a 22 inch barrel exactly. Many cut down barrels are close to but not exactly 22 inches.

I don't have my references here to check serial number ranges for M1896 carbines but Butlers said it might not be in that correct range. Sometimes a true carbine can be a rogue one outside the known range but don't count on it. Barrels can also be changed.

The stock, though, is a M1896 carbine stock with the spring in front of the barrel band and the flared bolt handle cut out. The hand guard is nice.

So, it may be a pieced together carbine cut down from a Krag rifle.

If you are able to give us more pictures, it will answer some questions. Nice piece, regardless!

[butlersrangers]

BTW 'Skirmisher' - Is there a carbine 'ring & bar' on the left wrist area of your stock? A Picture of the 'cartouche' would be nice to see.

[Skirmisher]

Thanks for the quick responses though they were not all Id hoped for. The rear sight only goes to 1800 yards and has no C mark so thats clearly from a rifle. And the barrel measures nearly 24 inches. Ill get some more pictures tomorrow and post them. I fear the cartouche wont show much, its so faint. But the receiver markings actually are clearer in photos than in person so maybe...
Yes it does include the saddle bar and ring.

Thanks for noticing my feet. This is certainly not he first time they have appeared in a photo Ive posted to a forum. Guess I need longer arms.

Stay tuned for more and thanks again.

Skirmisher

[Whig]

That answers a lot. We often find this kind of situation. Cut down rifle with a rifle sight in a carbine stock. Stock is worth more than the cut down rifle.

But, it can be a good shooting rifle and you can have lots of fun with it. Nice start. Hope you didn't buy it at a carbine price. Might be worth about $350-400 as is.

[Skirmisher]

Here are some more pics. The cartouche is there but its just too faint to read. The P below the wrist is more visible but doesnt show up well on the picture. The number 30 can be seen just above it. Tiny letters what Looks like TT are stamped on the underside of the bolt handle. The bore is pretty good. As noted above the butt includes the three piece rod plus a short bonus piece I believe was added by someone.
While I did not pay a carbine price the estimates noted above are certainly less. I am surprised that BR has the value of the stock nearly double Whigs estimate of the entire gun!
My interest is in viable shooters, no safe queens allowed here, and I expect this one will perform well once I get the new front sight mounted. It is my first Krag, I have wanted one for some time. Thanks for any additional comments or advice.

Skirmisher

[Skirmisher]

Rest of the pics

[madsenshooter]

Skirmisher, take a good up close look behind the bolt locking lug and make sure that I'm not seeing a crack that's running the way they usually do. Could be I'm seeing something that's not there.