Who got this treasure?

[Whig]

I have been watching this carbine on Gun Broker for the past week and put a couple bids on it. After I got home last night, I saw it sold for an unusually high price.

I guess I wasn't the only one to have looked the serial number up to find it is listed in the Springfield Research Service. I don't have them here to remember what the listing stated as to who it was assigned to but it's history must have really tweeked a couple people more than me. I put what I thought was a pretty high bid (for me) of a little over $1300. The stock is messed up but it looks authentic and original. Might be a Rough Rider carbine.

It sold for $5125.

Anyone here get this thing?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/831599417

[olderthansome]

According to Mallory, it (27931?) was issued to Sgt Matt T. Mcgehee, Co G, 1st US Volunteers.Mallory then shows the same number being issued to Cpl Henry Kirch. Probably a logical reason, but I doubt it doubles the value. The lowest number currently known to have gone to the Rough Riders is 26784.

At $5125, seems like someone got a real bargain!

[Dick Hosmer]

Wow, wonder what my China Relief Expedition carbine (70210) would fetch?

I'd have thought that GB carbine would have had a thin-wrist stock, and a forward gas-hole bolt. Wonder if it has the early extractor? Is that an 1896 or 1898 gate? Picture(s) marginal.

All fixable of course. ;)

[Local Boy]

Hey Mr. Hosmer...How about posting your China Relief Krag on Gun Broker and find out how much it would go for!!! ;)

Serial# 27931 or 27981???

I can not clearly see if the second to last number is a 3 or 8?

Serial# 27931 is found in Mallory's, 2nd Edition, Appendix 19, "Significant Serial Numbers of U.S. Krags", page 251 under the listing of "Model 1896 Carbines Issued To Personnel Of The 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry (Rough Riders) in 1898. Issued to as already stated above.

Being a possible "Rough Rider" carbine must have gotten the juices flowing!

Serial# 27981 is not listed.

[olderthansome]

You are correct. I am reading the number as "31", but it is not really clear - could easily be "81". If so, the number is in the "Gilda Radnor" file ("Never mind"). All 1895 dated Carbines are carried in Springfield records as M1896. I wish there was a clear record other than the "highest observed for 1895" and the "Lowest observed for 1896 or Model 1896".

[Whig]

I saw it as "31". You're right, a better picture would help.

[olderthansome]

Wow, wonder what my China Relief Expedition carbine (70210) would fetch?

I'd have thought that GB carbine would have had a thin-wrist stock, and a forward gas-hole bolt. Wonder if it has the early extractor? Is that an 1896 or 1898 gate? Picture(s) marginal.

All fixable of course. ;)

I have 26881 which is not far earlier than the GB Carbine. The mfg date is, I think, calendar 1895, but fiscal 1896 (?). The date the Rough Rider carbines were issued from SA is June 20, 1898. By that date, I would think that if the carbines were still in the hands of the arsenal, they would have been returned for service or would have been altered to reflect the standard features of the then current 1896 Carbines. Mallory mentions that carbines that were on hand or returned for repairs had the stocks updated to reflect changes begun in 1897. One of the changes was the addition of a provision for the oiler and the standard stock had, by then, been reworked. He mentioned that the stocks without the oiler provision were soon "rare" and unavailable. So maybe that means that the later, short style 1896 would have been the norm for the Rough Rider carbines as issued rather than as produced in 1895 or 6? I have an 1895 without the provision for the oiler, and I think it is the thinner stock. The bolt seems the same as for my other 1896's. I guess you guys would need to look at it. But if the stock would need to be changed to the early one, that may be tough! I'm not sure I'd know what to "fix". Later parts could be "correct, as issued". I guess you'd have to check several of the TR used carbines, and that could be very interesting.and fun, too.

[Whig]

I believe the "31" has it! For 27931.

[Dick Hosmer]

Olderthansome: How many rod holes in your thin-wrist carbine stock? My 24893 has but two.

Also, regardless of stock, which, after all had a real breakage problem, so well could have been an in-service repair, I believe that the carbine under discussion should have the early bolt and extractor configuration. The s/n is what makes it magic of course. Great find.

[olderthansome]

Olderthansome: How many rod holes in your thin-wrist carbine stock? My 24893 has but two.

Also, regardless of stock, which, after all had a real breakage problem, so well could have been an in-service repair, I believe that the carbine under discussion should have the early bolt and extractor configuration. The s/n is what makes it magic of course. Great find.

My thin wrist has 3 holes, but no provision for the oiler. The pic shows the surprise I found when first checking the butt. I also have sent a pic of the stock. I'm guessing my carbine re-visited the Arsenal at some point and had several updates including the bolt, but the stock is in such great condition that I wonder if they didn't change it out as there was no need. Mallory and, I think, Brophy, too have commented on the condition of some of the carbine stocks after periods of hard use. There was quite a bunch of carbines in serial numbers all around mine that are listed in Mallory as "071400(C&R at SA)" I wonder if that meant to Clean and Repair(?) - (as needed?).