Accuracy Question/ Point of Impact

[Rick H.]

Greetings: I finally had a chance to spend some quality time at the range today with my Krag Rifle and an issue came up that I would like some help with. Several months ago I installed a new Criterion barrel on my rifle and the project turned out pretty good. While not a Doug Turnbull restoration, it looks really nice. So far I have only shot Hornady 168/155 Amax bullets in this rifle as they work well through the action. I was only shooting for a group today at 100 yards and the rifle did quite well with one exception. I was getting a primary group of just about 1.5 inches, however every 2nd or 3rd shot would impact slightly high and to the left by about 2 inches. This was a repeatable issue every time I fired a new group. This was with the 155 Amax loads. The rifle doesn't seem to like the 168 Amax bullets very much as they grouped about 2.5" give or take.

I was wondering if anyone else has had this issue and if so what did you do to correct it? I am leaning towards opening up the front barrel band a bit to see if that helps. The front band has the barrel pretty well trapped and there isn't any give that I can feel. Or could this be an issue with the rear barrel band being too tight? I am open to suggestions. Thanks for any help.

Rick H.

Sorry, but the picture I attached is rotated to the left for some reason, but you will see where the bullets hit.

[madsenshooter]

Townsend Whelen recommended sanding inside the bands, with an Officer's supervision, just enough so that elongation of the barrel as it heats isn't inhibited. Some Krags I've ran across have been worked over and the majority of the barrel is free floated. Under the handguard is all free floated, with some of the channel left to very lightly contact wood and metal in the area of the rear band, with the band tight enough to the wood that it doesn't move under sling tension, then free floated again to a point about 1" behind the upper band. Upper bands are tight to the wood, but the two over barrel bands only touch slightly on alternate sides. Other than where they touch, I can see light between bands and barrel. Having a band too tight will make another one of mine throw the first shot a couple inches higher than the rest of the group. Your rifle might do better if you loosen the upper band, might do better to tighten it, they seem to be individual in that regard, but I'd try upper band a little looser first. Sort of a pain but gives you a reason to shoot more groups!

[butlersrangers]

Trigger guard screw tension or torque may be the issue on some Krags.

With barrel-bands in place, the front guard screw should be tightened first and quite tight. The rear guard screw should then be installed and just made snug. If the rear screw is too tight, it levers the barrel upward off the bottom of the stock's barrel channel.

[psteinmayer]

I've also heard that the front band should be slightly loose to allow for some barrel whip... not sure what that means, but I know it makes quite a difference in some rifles!

Also, with regards to the bullets you used: Krags are funny beasts... and almost human with regards to the food they like! What works well in one Krag may be horrible in another, and often, two different bullets will net very different results. In my 1898 that I use for Match shooting, the Hornady 220 gr RN works well, but the Sierra 220 gr RN is pretty pathetic. Hornady 220 gr RN FMJ bullets were tack drivers for me, but sadly, they haven't been available for some time now! My point is, when you find what works well for you... stick with it! You'll do well 8-)

[Rick H.]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I have worked on a number of 03's and 03A3's but they are vastly different in regards to barrel pressure etc. Can I assume that I should have just a slight amount of vertical barrel movement when all is tight? I am contemplating taking the front band off and leaving the rear band in place, then shooting the rifle to see what the results will be before I do anything else. I clearance the front barrel bands on 03 and 03A3's that I work on so I can just see light around the barrel and I have pretty good results with those so I am leaning towards doing the same with the Krag. I must say the suggestion to tighten the action screws a specific way is interesting also. Thanks again for the ideas!

Rick H.

[butlersrangers]

Rick H.:

IMHO there is not much wood connecting the forearm to the butt area on a Krag stock. (I think this kind of changes the 'forearm pressure' techniques that work on many other arms).

I have noticed on 'sporterized' Krag rifles that stocks often crack horizontally, behind the magazine opening, if a barrel-band or forearm-screw is not utilized. This suggests there is too much upward levering of the barrel & action, if the barrel is not secure in its channel.

As others have suggested, it is probably important that the Krag barrel-bands allow the barrel to expand forward as it heats up. However, it is also important that the barrel lay securely in the stock channel.

Barrel-bands that are too loose are probably not a good thing on a Krag. Some careful fitting of bands (and maybe graphite) could pay dividends.

From my experience, because of the tremendous mechanical advantage of the rear guard screw on the Krag (and Swiss K-31) action, it is important that this screw just be snug and not too tight.

[madsenshooter]

I've seen another way those cracks are made BR. On the 92/96 I have that is free floated, even the receiver ring is free floated. Since there's a little space there, getting on the front guard screw with my honking big screwdriver that I use spread out the area behind the magazine resulting in the cracks. Got those stabilized, and my receiver ring floating like someone planned it a long time ago. Rear screw first, really tight, front screw a bit less tight, on this one.

[butlersrangers]

madsenshooter - My experience is with model 1898 & model 1899 Krags. As a rule, the receiver ring has been nicely fitted on my stocks by the Armory and there has been amazing interchangeability.

I put the barreled-action in the stock and let the receiver ring and barrel 'bottom out' in the channel. I hold them in place, encircled by my left hand, as I insert and tighten the front guard-screw, firmly using a 'Chapman' screw-driver handle with appropriate bit. I then put the barrel-bands on and finish with the rear-screw, just snug. I never felt the need for a huge screw-driver or very heavy torque.

I believe too much force on the rear guard-screw could potentially split the stock vertically, behind the tang.

IMHO - The Krag stock is a fragile customer as military stocks go.

[Rick H.]

Thanks for all the replies. I have found, at least with the US Krag chassis, that there seems to be no steadfast rules on how to fit the stock. I have a cut down rifle that someone converted many years ago to a carbine and I actually really like the shorter length. It's a very comfortable and handy length. I put a new Criterion barrel on that and played with screw pressure and barrel/stock pressure etc., but have found that it shoots best if it is pretty much locked down in the stock. The one "trick" if you will that really seemed to help it out was to place a piece of brass shim stock on top of the forearm tip under the barrel and another piece of brass shim stock under the front barrel band exerting downward pressure on the barrel. Don't ask for a scientific explanation, but those two pieces of shim stock took that carbine from shooting sporadic 3" groups with flyers at 100 yards to around 1.5" groups with nary a flyer. Hard to believe, but that little Krag make believe carbine has become a favorite of mine even though it is not correct in almost any respect, but it's a gas to shoot and draws a lot of attention at the range.

My Krag rifle remains a source of frustration. I would have thought a new Criterion barrel and good install would have resulted in a very nice shooting rifle, but that hasn't happened yet.

Rick H.

[psteinmayer]

Howdy Rick,

Just a curiosity question: have you tried any other bullets? While many have great success with spitzer style bullets such as those A-Max... most find that a round nosed bullet works well. Krags were originally designed to fire 220 gr RN FMJ bullets at around 2000 fps. Criterion barrels are manufactured to exact standards of the original design, so it might do well with the RN. I have a friend who exhibits "Tack-Driver" accuracy shooting 150 gr RN Hornady bullets. I fire the Hornady 220 myself.

Otherwise, I would check the tightness of the bands, and trigger guard screws as others have stated. What ever the problem is, the fix might wind up being simpler than anyone imagines.

Great to hear that your sporter is a joy to shoot! Krags will do that to a person!!!

Happy Shooting!