Krag storage?

[Skyjay]

Howdy folks, glad to run into this forum. I am coming into possession of an 1898 rifle ser # 400899 a pretty late rifle example. It has a very brittle cloth (cotton) barrel packing, and a healthy amount of white grease on the action and bolt. It looks pretty clean, outside a nice pattern of patina on the metalwork. Given that it was manufactured late in the krag's line, I'm wondering if it went into storage or private hands and has sat since then.

Does anybody have any information on how these rifles were sold as surplus or kept in storage at springfield? I'm wondering if I have obtained an unfired 1902 firearm.

[butlersrangers]

'Skyjay' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

Pictures of your Krag and its 'storage measures' would allow a better assessment of your questions. (I am having a hard time getting my head around "brittle cotton cloth barrel packing" and "white grease").

FWIW - Krags were in use by the Regular Army, Navy, and Marines until about 1908-09. They continued in National Guard use until much latter. They were used during WW1 for training and in some Engineer and Railway units in Europe.

The storage measures on your Krag sound more recent to me. I picture Krags as being stored in wood crates with a light coat of 'brownish' cosmoline grease 'back in the day'.

(An armory new, unissued, unfired, mint Krag in original packaging, eludes me).

Back in the mid 1980s, the CMP sent me an M-1 Garand, rebuilt in 1963 and sealed in 'anti-vapor' storage packaging. This type of storage seems like a relatively 'recent' (1960s) concept to me.

[Skyjay]

So it sounds like from your reply the answer is unlikely. It was not sold to me as such, so this has been my guess.
I had the impression that the krag was quickly replaced by the 1903 rifle due to some of it's deficiencies in the field (v. the Mauser). That and the relatively small size of the armed forces in those years would make that easier.
This does give me some hope that the rifle was fielded somewhere. I do like a rifle with history. Pics are forthcoming as the firearm is in 'jail' pending a waiting period. I will share some photos soon.

On a side note it does have a 1901 rear sight on it despite having a (mid-late) 1902 serial number. Is it common to have an overlap in parts and manufacture dates?

[butlersrangers]

Krag sights got updated and sometimes switched back to an earlier sight, when things didn't quite pan out.

examples:

There was a 'model 1898 rear-sight' that was sighted for a higher velocity cartridge and put on some early model 1898 Krags. The cartridge proved 'too hot' and bolt locking-lugs began developing cracks. This caused a return to the earlier .30-40 loading and removal of the model 1898 rear-sights. Some model 1898 Krags were fitted with model 1896 rear-sights and hand-guards.

Near the end of Krag production in 1903-04, the model 1902 rear sight was preferred. It was very similar to the rear-sight on early (pre-1905) model 1903 Springfields.

However, in 1905 major changes were made to the model 1903 Springfield. The new (1905) rear-sight on the 1903 Springfield was more like the 1901 Krag sight.

It is possible that Krags issued to regular troops were more likely to have the 1901 rear-sight, while the 1902 sight was relegated to National Guard units.

FWIW - I have seen late model 1898 Krags with either the 1901 or 1902 sight and accept them as correct.

Attached photos show Krag was pressed into service during WW1 (training and U.S. Engineer troops in Britain).

[psteinmayer]

Let me add that many Krags that were used in rear echelon/guard/engineer units in WW1 Europe may have been "Field" updated or repaired, and may have resulted in a Krag receiving a different stock or handguard and sight than it started with. My 1898 is a good example of that, with a field replaced stock that has no markings, but shows plenty of usage wear.

[Skyjay]

Finally have some pictures to share of this find! From what you said, psteinmayer, good chance it was a field issue. However, the stock has the cartouche on them, albeit hard to see.

To start, some photos of the preservation:
Cotton barrel plug
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.17.45.jpg

Grease in barrel and some in chamber
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.16.11.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.18.23.jpg

Images of the stock markings
side: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.16.26.jpg
underside:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.16.59.jpg

rear sight and guard:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.19.28.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801192/Krag/2016-01-26%2016.15.28.jpg

So I guess my question is, how can I go about cleaning and preserve this rifle, I'm not used to this sort of packing and lubrication. It's quite a lovely specimen and I don't want to risk damaging it.

[reincarnated]

Skyjay,
I have seen white grease like that somewhere, but it has been a long time, maybe 50 years.

I would try to get the cotton packing out of the barrel first. Put the rifle in a good gun vise, one that has been anchored or clamped down. I would start from the muzzle, with a short .22 caliber cleaning rod, maybe even a pistol rod. I would use some sort of worm (as in muzzle loaders) or a 22 cal bronze bore brush to grab as many fibers as possible and pull them out.

Once you get some working room in the barrel, you can decide if you can push the rest of the cotton out through the chamber (with a blunt jag on a long cleaning rod) or if you need to continue taking out a little at a time.

The white grease can probably be removed with some sort of petroleum-based solvent. You will need a lot of cleaning patches and a lot of patience. Good Luck.

Richard aka reincarnated

[butlersrangers]

IMHO - There is nothing 'U. S. Military looking' about that storage method.

Did the grease harden or is it still soft and pliable?

For 'starters', I would grab the exposed edge of that muzzle patch, with needle nose pliers, and carefully try pulling it out.

[FredC]

I was hoping you had the only unfired Krag existing still in the cosmoline. Maybe it was stored early in life and has very little wear.
On that white grease, it used to be used in the tool and die industry and other places, old formulations were lead based. Just use common sense till you get all that stuff off.