Cadet rifle questions

[broadway]

Another question, are there records of any other schools receiving rifles for training? It would be interesting to see what other schools received rifles. My old school would be a real interesting find.

[butlersrangers]

I don't know of more 'school rifle' sales.

Some military schools, like Kemper in Missouri, (photo circa 1915), used regular Krag Infantry Rifles.

The Michigan Military Academy used Cadet Model 'trap-door' Springfields, until they closed in the early 1900s.

What was the serial number on the model 1898 you are looking at?

[broadway]

I am not certain of the serial number but it was something like 331763. I looked it up in Canfield's book on U.S. miltary bolt actions but came up short. The closest serial number was for one a bit lower and it was certified to HQ of M? Company of Engineers. Or something like that.

I don't remember what the bayonet lug looked like, I never thought to look that closely other than to see if it had the cut out on the bottom side. so many things to learn with a new item and not enough time nor experience to get them all. Even with the help of this site and other materials.

Someone put a fair bit of work into this gun to get it looking like it does. It's much better than a "shade tree 'smith" would have done to make a quick buck but it seems to be lacking the marks of an arsenal modification. Whomever did this put some effort into getting things done right, at least in appearances.

Based on what little I know and the wealth of info you have given me, it seems to be another $350 shooter, albeit a very well done one. Kind of like a used car with new Pirelli tires and Recaro seats- it may not add to the value but it does help with the sale-ability of the item. If it sits a while maybe they will discount it enough for me to pick it up. It is a good facsimile of a school rifle, at least to me. If the price comes down enough I might find out how accurate of a shooter it is.

[broadway]

I like that last picture, for some reason it did not come up until after I posted my last message. That happened with some of the other pictures you posted too. I hope my computer has not caught some virus or other such malady.

[Dick Hosmer]

I believe your asssessment that the piece in question is NOT a proper school gun, is correct.

There are just too many major things "wrong" with it, serial number, un-stepped barrel, etc. If you can get the price down to $350 or so, it doesn't matter, but I wouldn't pay much more.

As to sights, look at the range markings, on the 1901 style they are 2000 for the rifle and 2300 for the carbine.

[butlersrangers]

'broadway':
A serial number in the 331XXX range indicates this is a Model 1898 Rifle action that someone has put a Carbine barrel on.
You never mentioned what model of rifle rear-sight is on this imitation 'school rifle'.
(Attached photos show 1901 and 1902 Carbine sights that were utilized on Philippine Constabulary and School Rifles).

[Ned Butts]

Seems to me that Brophy and/or Mallory mentioned the use of some M1898 receivers in school guns. I am away from my books now so can't verify.

[butlersrangers]

I believe they expected some Model 1898 Carbines and possibly a few Model 1896 Carbines were altered to 'school rifles'.

[broadway]

Thanks for the replies, they have been helpful and informative.

The rear sight was a 1901 rifle sight as it was marked to 2000 yards, the hash marks on the side of the base were not to 500, and I could find no "C" anywhere on the sight.

I found in Poyer's book a mention of Rock Island Armory having converted 39(?) 1898 receivers to school guns but the is no mention of where that number came from. That the inspector cartouche has a date on it and there is no indication of RIA having placed their cartouche on it, I doubt this gun is one of these.

A previous owner did scratch either his first name or first initial and last name into the stock which further diminishes it's collectibility. For fun I looked through the yearbook listings of my high school alma mater to see if there was anyone of that name having attended the school but to no avail.

I am very tempted to try Shattuck based on its nearness to the shop. Finding that this rifle came from there would not increase the value to me but it could be a neat story behind the rifle if it ever comes down low enough to purchase. Or if I find an alumnus that has a sense of history in that area.

Again, thanks for all the help on this rifle. I have learned more about Krags in general from this rifle than I knew previously. I guess it comes from having a foundation to build upon. Thanks to this site and the people on it, the foundation is much stronger than what I could have built on my own.