My Recent CMP Krag Purchase

[Bill77]

My wife and I had decided a month or so ago that we would get our kids (12yo twins boy/girl) "big" presents this year. We're both doing pretty well and we feel the kids especially deserve it. They're well behaved, do well in school and both take their hobbies seriously. My son, kinda like dear ol' dad, has really taken to shooting for the past couple of years. He takes his shooting seriously and has shown himself to be competent and safe when it comes to handling/manipulating firearms. So my wife and I decided that we would let him pick out his own M1 Garand from the CMP South Store this year. Of course, while the true purpose for going was to let him select his rifle, I knew that there were a couple of things that I had my eyes peeled for myself. Being a Krag forum, I'll spare everyone the details of his selection (with the help of Bobby at the SS, he picked an absolutely beautiful Service Grade Int'l Harvester), so I'll get on to what I snagged.

I picked out what I thought was a great looking 1898 rifle (SN417117) that appears to have been made in 1903. I'm still learning about these rifles, but it appears to have an 1898 rear sight on it, the finish is even with no pitting and the wood looks terrific. The bore is bright and shiny and while the tag shows the muzzle gauging at "1+", my gauge actually shows less than "1" on the ME. Can anybody recommend what the appropriate sling would be for these rifles?

Anyway, obligatory pics.











Can you own a Krag without owning a Spanish Mauser to help tell the tale of the rifle?


Yesterday's haul....

[butlersrangers]

Bill77 - That is the nicest looking Krag, I have seen, from a recent CMP purchase, with a shiny bore to boot!

Most of the CMP Krags, to recently become available, are returns from Veterans' Posts. Many were shortened to 24 inch barrels, and have dark bores from firing blanks with little cleaning. Some have stocks that were painted white or chrome plating.
Yours is nice. Well done you!

U.S. Krag, #417117, would have likely been assembled around October or November, 1902.
Do I see some 'tiger stripes' in the wood? Maybe you have an Italian walnut stock?

Your rear-sight looks to be one of the correct variations of the model 1902 sight. It could be original to your rifle.
Springfield Armory 'recycled' the top part of the short-lived 1898 rear-sight. The square corners and outside notches of the 1898 eyepiece were radius-ed and serrations were added to the left-side of the 'leaf'.
The altered 'top' was put on a regular 1902 base, at the Springfield Sight Shop. Some variations have the added swing-up 'peep' and many don't.
Your sight's elevation 'locking-knob' is the type that was made for the early 1903 Springfield rifle and .30-03 cartridge. They are common on Krags, but, were ground to accept the rimless cartridge head as a 'screwdriver'.

(BTW - The 1898 sight-base was too low for reuse. It was made for the soon 'abandoned' 2,200 fps ammo and it had an obsolete spring design. The faster 1898 ammo developed higher pressure and was blamed for cracked bolt-lugs. The 1898 sight bases & springs eventually showed up on the surplus market).

How about some closeups and 'backstory' of your 1893 Mauser, posted in the "Other Firearms" category?

[butlersrangers]

'Bill77' - You asked about a sling for your Krag.

I noticed on ebay that IMA has a replica (64 inch), model 1887 sling, on sale for under $20. This is the style of sling that was predominately used on the U.S. Krag. (As late as WW-I)

Surprisingly, this sling served mainly as a "carry-strap". Using the sling as a 'shooting aid', for Position Shooting, was just coming into practice at U.S. matches, around 1903.

For "Vintage Match" competitions, a better sling is a copy of the model 1907 sling. This was designed for the model 1903 Springfield Rifle and was intended to be used as a shooting sling, as well as, a carry strap. It is allowable in match rules.

There are replicas of the canvas Mills 'tropical sling' available. This sling underwent trial, but, proved to be a poor design.

[Bill77]

Thank You again for the information!

I didn't really get to dig into what I had yet as I went out of town as soon as we got back from the CMP. To hear that I picked one out in especially good condition compared to what had been previously seen is very encouraging. I didn't tear down my Krag yet, but did help my son clean up his M1 (not much to do there) and the M1917 - which was slathered in cosmoline from top to bottom below the stock line. My M1917 is cleaned up very nicely, but it took the better part of the afternoon to get it that way. I'll dig further into the Krag next weekend and my plan is to do my usual treatment of 50/50 mineral spirits and flaxseed oil to clean it up. I'll be sure to post pics of the wood once everything is cleaned up.

Thank You for the clarification on the rear sight as I knew it didn't look quite right as an 1898 sight, but it was the closest to what I could find. Knowing why it didn't look quite right and why makes more sense.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the appropriate sling and I'd be happy to put up a post on the Spanish Mauser, but that will have to wait until later this week after I return from my business trip.

I've got projectiles, powder and primers - now I'm just waiting on Graf's to ship my darn brass so I can get some ammo loaded!

[butlersrangers]

'Bill77' - Some hints on Krag disassembly and assembly to avoid potential problems. My opinion and experience FWIW:

1. (The front-sight blade needs to be removed to take the front-band completely off of the rifle. The fine pin, that holds the blade in place, is tapered. It is driven left to right to remove).

"It is not necessary to take the front-band off of the rifle in order to remove the stock or to clean the metal parts adequately".

2. (The tips of the sling-swivel screw and stacking-swivel screw were 'mushroomed' to prevent loss, if they loosened during service).

It is not necessary to totally remove these screws. If one must, removal requires a proper fitting screwdriver, care, a bit of solvent and strength. It is easy to bugger-up the screw-slots. The threads will be a bit altered having been 'forced'.
The barrel-band can be taken off by loosening the swivel-screw and inserting a screwdriver-tip, next to the swivel, to spread the band open, further.
The 'spread' barrel-band can clear the pin that goes through the stock.
The "U" on the barrel-band is an assembly aid and goes on the right side of the rifle.

"Do not remove the stock-pin that retains the barrel-band; this will likely chip the surrounding wood".

3. (The hand-guard is retained by two springs that clip it to the barrel. To remove, take off the rear-sight and the stock. Slide the hand-guard toward the muzzle and the taper of the barrel allows it to be easily taken off near the muzzle).

Re-install the hand-guard by reversing the process. Store a loose hand-guard by twisting a 'Quarter' into the rear clip and a Nickel or Penny in the front clip.

"It is easy to crack an unsupported Krag hand-guard. Do not snap on and off a barrel. You will crack it".

4. (When putting the stock back on a Krag, make sure the barrel and receiver are 'bottomed' on wood. You can put the barrel-band loosely in place. Firmly tighten the front trigger-guard screw and just 'snug' the rear guard screw).

"Over tightening the rear screw can lift or torque the barrel upward off of its bedding".
IMHO - There should be a sliver of light between the top of the barrel and the 'inside' top of the barrel-bands.

[Hamish]

Wonderful thread and great pics Bill!

[Bill77]

Thank You gentlemen!

You don't know how bad it was killing me to have gone to the CMP to pick up some new toys and then to immediately have to hit the road for work and not be able to really tear down and clean things up.

Thanks for the tips butlersrangers on the teardown, it was pretty straightforward and kept me from breaking anything, notably the handguard. I did my usual treatment of old mil-surp rifles and made sure that things were clean, noted any pitting (there was none) and then went to town cleaning the stock and handguard. I've used the same treatment for years - 50/50 mineral spirits/raw linseed oil and then gently scrub with 0000 steel wool. This always removes the grime without stripping the wood and most importantly, it preserves any cartouches/stamps in the wood. It always burns me up when I see someone get an old surplus rifle and their first step is to break out the wood stripper.

Anyway, here are some pics of what found along the way. There was a stamp on the wood flat ("CB") and the cartouche is dated 1899. There was also stamps at the top of the buttplate, which I'll assume was some sort of rack number, whether for the military or the VFW it probably came from - though I'll admit that I've never seen any with lettering. If anybody has any insight, I'd love to hear it.





Before


After

[butlersrangers]

Your wood definitely appears to be Italian walnut, by color and grain, very pretty!
(Springfield had a shortage of cured American black walnut stock blanks in 1898 and bought suitable Italian walnut from a N.Y. lumber company, in a couple of contracts.
From my observation, most of these stocks are dated, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902. Sometimes, these stocks were stained by a unit, to darken them).

"C.B." stamp is likely from 'stocker' or sub-inspector.

Butt-plate marking is probably 8th regiment (Army or N.G.), Company L, and rack #?

A stock with an 1899 'cartouche' on a 1902 barreled/receiver happens during Armory/Arsenal stripping for rebuilding.

You have a mighty nice looking model 1898 Krag, enjoy!

[Kerz]

It sure is a nice Krag! Let know how it performs at the range.
Vic

[Fred G.]

Beautiful Krag!!