Show me a nice stock Cartouche

[butlersrangers]

I also thought Baltimoreed's '1896' cartouche looked suspicious.

[Cat Man]

When I started the post I intended it to share some collections for fun. Never intending to raise questions about Cartouche authenticity.
But it caused me to study the close up photography of multiple cartouches. I noticed that the border on the originals does NOT have a constant radius on each corner as I always assumed.
The stamped border actually has angled corners about 45 Degrees. The current hand stamps on the market today look to have a radius on the corners. If a collector decides to re-stamp a Krag stock with a current tool,
the stamp is ever so slightly different from the original. Still a nice mark if that is what is needed on a restoration.

Jeff The Caterpillar Man

[FredC]

It would be interesting to know how they even made the stamps in 1896. Today it would be easy to run a bunch of identical stamps on a CNC mill. Doing these by hand turning a crank on a manual mill could get it roughed out. How was the finishing done? 1896 version of a Dremel? Hammer and chisel? Could an apprentice make one that was almost the same as old hands George and Sam? Was George's almost the same as Sam's or did each have their own style?

I had heard of new stamps being made before and thought fraud, but Cat Man's thought of restoration even puts that in a different light.

[Baltimoreed]

Here’s another view of the cartouche. It’s an exceptionally clean rifle.

[Cat Man]

Baltimoreed has shown us a very nice 1896. One I would gladly show off with pride in my collection. Having been carefully cleaned and kept original, I think I see the variation in the stock cartouche.
Looking carefully at an enlargement, I think what has occurred, is what is called a "restrike". There is a faint ghost of the original cartouche outline. The restrike being just to the right or the original.
Unlike modifications to deceive buyers with aftermarket reproductions of original gun parts and complete faux rifles being assembled to attract the unsuspecting buyer, this cartouche
has been added to replace the same original mark and enhance the original stock back to its former life.

Look carefully at the two highlighted areas in the photo and tell me if you see the ghost outline.

Jeff the Caterpillar man

[butlersrangers]

Cat Man: I think you are correct about the faint remains of an earlier cartouche.

The 'fresh' cartouche is not necessarily a legitimate SA marking.
FWIW - The out-line and numerals look suspect to me.

It is also possible that someone deepened faint wood markings with a 'scriber' so that they would look "more better".

[Knute1]

Since we are looking at some of these with some scrutiny, what can be said about my 1896 cartouche. It is "blackened", like King Carp's. It is impressed, also. You have to hold it in the right light to make the "6" out. So was it originally blackened or was it blackened later? This is a refurbished rifle from 1892 to 1896. The stock has the filled ramrod hole.

Cartouche1.jpg (485.56 KiB) Viewed 1263 times

[butlersrangers]

Knute's cartouche looks legitimate to me.

The model 1892 rifles that were updated to model 1896 configuration had to be taken apart to facilitate alterations.
The serviceable stocks were extensively worked on and expertly refinished in the process.
IMHO - It is very probable a lot of them would show a faint cartouche, but with dark outline, letters & numerals, due to old finish in low spots during the refinish process.

(FWIW - I remember about 8 to 10 years ago, a guy named 'Old Sailor' was selling refinished Krag stocks on eBay with whatever cartouche you wanted on it. Type Metal cartouche stamps were also being sold on eBay. I do not know what the resulting stock 'markings' looked like. They are out there)!

This is an interesting thread and discussion because it is showing lots of examples of Krag stock markings.

[Whig]

I think that I would rather see the old, faded, worn cartouche than a "restrike" with a fabricated stamp. Something about the old, worn, darkened cartouches that make these Krags look so authentic! Nice collection of cartouches. I'll have to snap pics of mine soon and add to the collection.

[King carp]

Knute: I am not sure but i think the "blackened" appearance of our cartrouche's might be from years of oxcidation of the linseed oil finish. It shows up well in the open pores on the stock in both of our pic's. That is something that is hard to fake.