1896 Carbine Hand Guard Modification

[xxranch]

Good Afternoon, I have been a Krag rifle owner for awhile but just recently found this great forum. My rifle is a 1892 that was manufactured in July of 1895 and I really enjoy shooting it on occasion. About five years ago I started searching for an honest/correct 1896 Carbine and looked at a lot of them which were either knockoffs, in really rough condition or horribly expensive. A few months ago I finally pulled the trigger on a 1896, made in mid 1897, with a serial number in the range that both Brophy and Poyer believe to be correct for a saddle ring carbine. I got it for a reasonable price (for now days) because it was missing the rear sight, hand guard and front sight blade. Last week I received the ebay purchased rear sight which is correct, fully functioning but with some rust pitting (it did clean up okay). As you all know the hand guards are impossible to find, so after doing some research and talking to collector friends here in Tucson, I purchased a 1892/1896 rifle hand guard knowing that it would have to be shortened and modified to affix to the carbine. Any insight that you can give me would be welcome but I would especially like to know if any of you have gone through this before and can recommend a craftsman or gunsmith that can take my very nice rifle hand guard and transform it into a correct carbine hand guard. I cannot believe that I had not run across this forum before with all of you experts and your in-depth knowledge of this wonderful, historic firearm. Thank you.

[Whig]

Welcome, finally, to KCA xxranch!! Yes, we are everything Krag here and would love to try to help, if we can.

You have fallen into somewhat of a trap with purchasing your Krag carbine. Pictures will tell more but many shysters and opportunists out there are buying up Krags and stripping them of the most valuable parts, selling the parts for a big price and then selling the naked Krag to a collector who has to then search for the correct parts to restore their treasure. This often winds up costing much more than buying a fully dressed and correct Krag to begin with. The authentic Model 1896 carbine rear sight, if you can ever find one by itself, frequently sells for between $800- 1,000! The hand guards for these sights often sell for $300-400. So, unless you absolutely stole this carbine, and it is otherwise correct, it may wind up costing a whole lot more than you planned to restore it correctly. Pictures and more info will enlighten us about your situation.

The hand guards are sight specific but there are many out there that can fit what rear sight you have bought. I venture to say that you got a Model 1896 RIFLE rear sight, not the carbine one. I have not seen a carbine rear sight for the Model 1896 carbine on ebay for quite a while. I may have missed the one you bought, though. Please post pictures of everything so we can enjoy what you have and maybe offer some suggestions. The Model 1896 carbine rear sight is calibrated to "20", for 2000 yards, and has a "c" stamping on the top right of the leaf above the "19" and on the right side of the base. If you have a sight with a leaf calibrated to "18", you have a rifle rear sight.

All of the rear sights have the same screw holes and threading and can be interchanged but, as you know, the hand guards are different and the sights are calibrated differently for the 30 inch rifle barrels compared to the 22 inch carbine barrels. The different hand guards are shown below for the rifles "R" and carbines "C". I also put up a few pictures of the correct model 1896 carbine rear sight.

We will wait patiently for some nice pictures of yours to check out!

[xxranch]

Thank you very much for your response Whig, I appreciate it. The rear sight that I purchased is the correct one although not as nice as the one that you depict and I was very surprised to find it. I think that the reason that it may have been missed by a lot of collectors on ebay is that it was labeled WW1. From reading your responses to other individual's questions, I assume that you are very knowledgeable about Krags. Perhaps you can confirm that the 1892/1896 rifle sight is the same dimensions as the carbine sight (although with different markings and no "C" on the base or ladder) and that the hand guard, if cut down properly, would fit perfectly on the carbine. I understand where you are coming from and might agree that some misguided person would have sold the hand guard and rear sight off prior to my purchasing it, and I could understand that, except that this carbine and stock (with all of the correct 1897 cartouches) are in such nice condition that it would not make sense. But...who knows, now it is my challenge. I tried to figure out how to post a picture but was not successful.

[butlersrangers]

'xxranch', the Op, did pick up a real model 1896 carbine rear-sight on eBay. It was offered a couple of times in recent weeks.

(I had it on my 'Watch List', but did not 'speculate' on it.
I knew someone would need it to complete a carbine.
I did not wish to draw attention and drive up bidding.
I'm glad it went to a good home).

Attached are some pictures of the sight in question.

'xxranch' mentioned having obtained a "model 1892/96 handguard" to alter for his carbine.

If it is a model 1892 handguard, IMO, it would be a mistake to alter it to carbine dimensions.
The model 1892 rifle handguard has become rare and it will not make a proper looking 1896 carbine handguard.
Model 1892 handguards have 'flush' rivets and do not cover the whole receiver ring.

Actually, it is unfortunate to alter any good original Krag handguard.
Be patient when seeking parts, but, I understand that sometimes altering a good part may be the only solution.

I was fortunate (years ago) to buy a cheap, 'messed up', 1896 rifle handguard.
The sight-opening had been altered to accept a model 1901 sight.
I altered it into a 'passable' 1896 carbine guard, not perfect, but cosmetically 'OK'.
It was not hard to do with a modeler's saw and small files.
The 1896 carbine stock, sight, and barrel-band help locate key points for the fitting process.

[xxranch]

"Butlersrangers" thank you for your input and advice. You are correct, that is the one that I bought and it did clean up pretty nicely but it still has pitting on it, I just felt lucky to actually find a correct one, although a little rough. I guess that it should come as no surprise that nice, correct Krag Carbines, and especially the 1896, are becoming hard to come by and commanding real money. The hand guard that I purchased has the exact sight cut out so that would not have to be modified, I will hold off modifying my rifle hand guard for awhile and continue the search for the correct one. Could you or somebody tell me where to go to find the instructions on how to post a picture on this forum? I would sure appreciate it. Thank you.

[butlersrangers]

When you are typing a post, go to the bottom of the page.

There is a 'bar' labeled 'attachments' - left-mouse 'click' on it.

A lower 'button' labeled 'add files' becomes active - mouse click on it.

You will be taken to your hard-drive where pictures are stored.

Find the image you want to use - MAKE SURE THIS ATTACHMENT IS SMALLER THAN 1MIB - click your desired image to select it,
then click the 'open' button on your hard-drive page. This will attach the image to your post.

You must do this for each image; up to five images. (images 200KB to 750KB are a good size on the KCA Forum).

Your multiple posted pictures will display in reverse order. The first selected will be the last picture in your post.

It is easier to do this than to explain it. I am low in tech savvy!

Natural lighting, focus and detail is better than distant panoramic shots.
If there are feet in your pictures, I will make fun of you. Wear interesting socks!