Short chamber question

[JessLJessup]

A few weeks ago I acquired an 1899 Carbine with an 1898 sight. Some of you helped me ID the sight. Well, when I fired the carbine, which worked OK with the dummies I had, it closed hard. I purchased a Forster go gage and it will NOT close on the go gage. I fired rounds through a rifle and the carbine at he same session, so the brass is mixed, though upon examination, I cannot tell which was fired in which gun.

Jess

[Dick Hosmer]

Being 98% collector and 2% shooter, I'm probably in way over my head here, but since the Krag headspaces on the rim, chamber length should not be an issue. Is the barrel EXACTLY 22"? Is the arsenal witness mark PERFECTLY aligned? Given the rim-based seating, even if you are using cases badly in need of trimming, I've always understood the Krag to have fairly generous chamber/throat dimensioning? Perhaps you simply have a bolt that is too long? Or, could there be a burr on the lug, or some hardened crap in the recess?

Also, FWIW, I do not recall this exact issue (not closing on a gauge which SHOULD fit) ever being raised?

Now, I'll wait for the smart people to come along.

[JessLJessup]

Thank you.
The witness marks align. I have a picture in OneDrive, but can't seem to get them to load here. I also tried a cpl different stripped bolts and got pretty much the same result.

[Dick Hosmer]

You're certainly welcome for my kindergarten-level insights...

The smart people must still be asleep, or you/we have succeeded in confounding them

Using reloads or factory ammo? Reason I asked about barrel length was the (unlikely) possibility of it having been set back one thread. That would probably be enough to affect the chamber, but shouldn't bother the rim, unless it was not faced off enough? Does extractor cut look correct? Any issue with the hook not snapping down cleanly into the cut?

You've now got me interested in what the real culprit is...

[butlersrangers]

I am reluctant to make a post, when other KCA Members say: "Now let's wait until the smart guys come along".

Talk about being set up to fail!
(In truth, there are lots of intelligent KCA Members. Processing a problem as a group has often been very enlightening on this Forum).
We are all learning and sometimes we forget things that we discovered in the past!

I have made a couple of enemies in the past on gun forums. It is pretty easy to step on egos and piss some people off.
I am not always right nor do I feel the need to think I am. I have some experience and try to help.

To new members: Use the "Search" button at the top of this page. A lot of issues have come up before. Use the forum like a trouble shooting manual.

#1 Confirm the "Go" Head-Space Gauge (or any gauge) is working correctly!

About five years ago, we had a member 'ruin' a new barrel with a 'finish-chamber' reamer. He kept removing metal until his bolt would close on the "Go" gauge.

He was failed by a Clymer-brand "Go" gauge, that did not fit into his Krag 'bolt-face' properly. The gauge gave him false readings!
His gauge had an excessive rim-diameter and no bevel around the edge of the rim.

The Krag bolt-face has a 'flange' or shroud.
A .30-40 cartridge case and a proper head-space gauge has to 'clear' and not hang-up on this flange.

The gauge has to make square contact with the recessed bolt-face to give a valid measure.

Jessup should double-check, that his "Go" gauge fits into his bolt properly an is not giving false readings.

[butlersrangers]

I suspect that Jessup's barrel may be an 'altered' 1903 Springfield barrel.
This is not a problem in itself. It is all in the execution!

I have owned a couple of Krag 'sporters', that were fitted with altered 1903 Springfield barrels.
Both rifles were good shooters. They had chambers, that were 'tighter' than regular Krag barrel chambers.
Chamber length was not a problem; my re-barreled Krags handled regular commercial .30-40 ammo, without apparent problems.

One of these Sporters was an economy rifle, cobbled together by Sedgely.
The extractor, that came with it, was 'reshaped' and had some ugly grind marks.
When I tried replacing that extractor with a 'prettier' standard one, problems emerged.
There was suddenly difficulty in closing the bolt on factory cartridges.

The standard Krag extractor could not navigate the irregular extractor-slot, that had been cut into the breech of the 'altered' 1903 barrel.
I had to reinstall the 'ugly' Sedgely extractor back on the bolt, to have normal bolt function.

IIRC - Jessup made posts about this 'sportered' Krag, last October. I am re-posting some of the photos he supplied, at that time,
with edits.

I think this barrel is likely an 'altered' 1903 Springfield barrel, based on a photo showing machine marks, in front of the receiver (ring).
This suggests the barrel breech was reduced and re-contoured to Krag barrel dimensions.
Other photos seem to indicate that sections of the barrel are undersize, for the barrel-channel of the Krag stock.

The photo of the extractor-notch, on this possible 'altered' 1903 barrel, suggests to me that there may be alignment issues,
with the tip of the extractor-claw. This could be causing difficulty in closing the bolt.

BTW - It is easy to identify a 'real' Krag barrel, there is a large stamped "P" (proof) on the bottom near the action.

A lot could be learned about this Krag's chambering problem, simply by stripping the bolt and using the 'bare' bolt to test several functions.

If the 'bare bolt' can close on a properly dimensioned and functioning "Go" gauge, the Krag's minimum head-space should be 'OK'.
Then see if the bare bolt is able to close on factory rounds.

(If the bare bolt cannot complete these functions, there is a problem with chamber dimensions, possibly requiring finish-reaming).

If the bare bolt can successfully close on factory ammo, the problem is likely related to the extractor/extractor notch function.

[Culpeper]

My first thought is a possible ammo sizing issue.

Don't look to the barrel until take a few variables. Ammo is the prime one.

Is the chamber and throat clean? Yes? No?

Are you only using factory ammo? Does it fit equally well in both guns?

If yes, shoot one round in each gun. Mark them with sharpie through the process. Remember 30-40 cartridge headspaces on the rim and not the shoulder. Resize the brass with proprly set up dies and reload. No neck sizing, only full length sizing.

Do they fit equally well in either or both guns?

If using reloads check your dies for proper set up.

It could be the shoulder just needs to be pushed back a thousandth or two.

Anyway that is my process when I have chambering issues between two guns of the same cartridge. No two chambers are exactly same. Rule out the variables.

Culpeper
- on the run from the "Home" near points southwest

[JessLJessup]

Thanks Guys for the responses. I tried to respond on Friday to Dick Hosmer's suggestions, but kept getting a strange error page. I'm also having no luck posting pictures.
Going a bit backwards here. The gauge is Forsters. It does fit in the bolt flange. I have a spare bolt and the sporter bolt that ButlersRangers mentioned. Mostly the same result with some variation in bolt drop.
This gun is not the sporter. As far as I can tell it is a genuine 1899 carbine.
The barrel measures 22" or so (using a marked rod and a Milwaukee tape measure). Best I could do.
I have tried Hornady factory and some handloads made with Hornady brass.
It closes harder in the ammo than I think it should, but there does not appear to be any pressure marks. It extracts without a problem.
My shooting session had two Krags. I do need to shoot the carbine alone and examine the brass better. In looking at the mixed brass, I can see no difference.
Thanks again, I will look again at each of the items mentioned and try to figure out how to post pictures.

Jess

[butlersrangers]

Jess - From your response, it appears your barrel-breech requires a slight 'cut' from a finish-reamer, in order for your bolt to close on your 'Go' gauge.

Looking at the bottom of your barrel for the proof 'P' will confirm whether it is a Krag barrel or not.
A clear close-up photo of your front-sight and barrel muzzle, also allows a good judgement about your barrel's originality.

If your Krag bolt closes on factory ammo and allows firing these cartridges, you can just live with the situation.