Barn find carbine. Repair, conserve, restore or replace?

[Five.five-six]

I’m on to my 2nd Krag, so I guess that makes me a collector. This latest one is in pretty rough shape but it’s still better than my first one. The first one came up for sale as a 96 carbine and I knew it wasn’t but the price was right and I like tinkering. Unfortunately, the deeper I got into that one, the worse it got. I suspect the barrel is from a 1903 but that’s a different story.

As I worked on my first Krag, I was becoming more and more disappointed when this one came up. The price was less than you would pay for a saddle ring on eBay






When I got it home, it didn’t look any better. In fact, it looked worse.




And worse




And worse




And even worse!

https://youtu.be/2pDYh5RB9y0?si=78SBdRx-AM_Bz0mM

OK, let’s try again it’s out all that cotton in there… not getting better

https://youtu.be/GZD10rQvtWo?si=FvEJXBNDpCMfi5pU

I still like it a lot better than my first one.





Things I like

The screws look like they have only been touched with hollow ground bits

The saddle ring, rear sight, front sight, barrel band and stock seem correct.

Oiler and rods were in the buttstock.


Things I don’t like.

AI says the serial is not a carbine

The handguard seems incorrect

The stock has been sanded. The only cartouch visible is a feint circle behind the trigger guard.


I have been boiling and carding and besides the magazine cover and barrel band, most of it is coming out not too shabby.


My dilemma is the wood. I really have no idea how to go about repairing it. The stock has one big crack and a half dozen smaller cracks which appear to be from water saturation and drying. You can compress them by hand but they don’t want to go all the way back and mate up. I could force it together in a vice and glue it up or run a screw through and pull them together but I don’t like the idea of having all that much tension on the wood fibers, I think that is going to eventually pull apart again. I’m toying with filling with an epoxy or filler and slightly compressing or beign as it feels solid, just leaving it as is. I really have no idea which way to go with it.


Next thing is the handguard It has a good split. It’s been “repaired” and the gunk/glue in crack preventing it from going back together. It’s ugly. I have almost no money in this gun, there is some budget and it may be an item I just replace.

[waterman]

I'm not an experienced judge of things Krag, but I would not believe whatever AI source told you that is not a real 1896 carbine. Were it mine, and if I had a functional leg, I'd be jumping up & down. I think it's the real deal. It has the proper barrel band, held in place properly. From what I can see, I'd think the rear sight is correct. Plus, it's an antique. You can tell all the regulators to stuff it.

That said, It sure needs a lot of TLC. It doesn't cost much to query one of the big-time restoration outfits. With today's inflation, their estimate will give you sticker shock, but that would be my starting place. My guess is $5 K. It needs a lot of work. If restored, could you sell it and get your investment back?

The stock: Looks to me as if all the hardware fits pretty good. Esp. the butt plate. If you sealed the stock in a 100 % humidity container and left it for a spell, might the cracks get smaller?

Then you need to go to work on the metal. Go easy and get a lot of advice. Some of the older advisors here will steer you in the right direction.

Re: the bore video. I've seen worse looking barrels shoot pretty good.

[Whig]

Welcome. But...ouch! That might be the worst Krag I've ever seen. Way beyond realistic repair. I'd work on getting the rust off the rear sight and making it look reasonable again and then selling it for $500. Then you have a good down payment on a real Krag carbine. This would make a good wall hanger. Or mount it upright, run some wires and make a lamp out of it. Did I say ouch?!

[Dick Hosmer]

Welcome! My vote is for fixing it, no hesitation whatsoever. Time and TLC will work wonders. "AI" has its' place, but for anything to do with history - it SUCKS. What IS the serial number, and what "AI" source did you use, so that we may all avoid it in the future.

Condition aside, I see nothing wrong with that gun. Epoxy filler will do for the butt stock, then stain and linseed oil. Soak the metal in Kroil or WD40, for weeks if need be. Flat hardened surfaces may be shaved with razor blades, changed often. An 1896 rifle hand guard can be reworked (on the invisible part) for use on a carbine - much more available, and cheaper. Whatever you do, clean up the sight, Whig is not joking about the $500.....

Report back in six months....

[Five.five-six]

Welcome. But...ouch! That might be the worst Krag I've ever seen. Way beyond realistic repair. I'd work on getting the rust off the rear sight and making it look reasonable again and then selling it for $500. Then you have a good down payment on a real Krag carbine. This would make a good wall hanger. Or mount it upright, run some wires and make a lamp out of it. Did I say ouch?!

I beg to differ.

This was 6 hrs after I got it home. 1 hr boil, 2 hrs card and oil. An hour cleaning the first layer of gunk off the stock and a splash of BLO. Also, it was my wife’s birthday so I cooked her dinner.


I just wanted to clean it up enough to see what I was working with.




Before I even took the bolt out.

https://youtu.be/zxh2ZCcEqIg?si=MSjKZOH-mZevEoFZ

[youtube]zxh2ZCcEqIg[/youtube]

[Whig]

Looks much nicer. Those original pictures sure look bad though. Doesn't mean some good elbow grease can't make it better. I hope the rear sight is a carbine sight that is worth money. Good job! (Still, "Ouch"! on those rusted pictures!)

[Five.five-six]

Looks much nicer. Those original pictures sure look bad though. Doesn't mean some good elbow grease can't make it better. I hope the rear sight is a carbine sight that is worth money. Good job! (Still, "Ouch"! on those rusted pictures!)

I could make it look new but I don’t think that would match the rifle. I might give it 1 more coat of rust blue only because I missed the front bar on the last one and I’d like to hammer just a little love into the front of the base.




The metal work is all academic at this point. Still deciding if I keep or replace that barrel band. I can make it black again but replacing the missing metal might be more work than it’s worth.

This is my real problem:

[butlersrangers]

FWIW - If it were mine, I would leave the metal at your present point of cleaning.

I would stabilize the wood by maybe working some 'epoxy wood filler' into the smaller cracks.

The larger crack in the butt, I would strengthen by parking a large 'fitted' hardwood 'dowel', coated with 'epoxy-bedding' into the lower lightening-cavity, also working epoxy into the crack edges, and then 'clamp' the crack closed to let the epoxy-bedding harden.
(The lower Cavity served no purpose, but to make the stock lighter, and is cover by the butt-plate).

I might enlarge the lower butt-plate screw hole a bit, so that the screw doesn't act like a 'wedge', reopening the 'split'.

Smaller hardwood dowels or threaded brass rods, coated with epoxy, could be inserted in diagonal holes to resist the crack reopening.

These repairs would all be hidden under the butt-plate.

Please make things look evenly worn and interesting, not new! (Your progress has been remarkable)!

(P.S. - A serial number, and clear close-up photos of the front and rear-sight, would allow us to determine if this is a 'real' model 1896 carbine).

[butlersrangers]

'Five.five-six' - BTW, Welcome to the KCA Forum.

From what little I can see, you appear to have a real model 1896 carbine stock, hand-guard and rear-sight.

The carbine sight 'leaf' increments go up to '20' on the left scale and there is a small "C" on the right, across from the 20.

[Five.five-six]

FWIW - If it were mine, I would leave the metal at your present point of cleaning.

I can’t quite quit just yet, I still have active rust to convert/remove. I’ve done very little new rusting on it. I had thought I had gotten all the rust pockets out of the barrel but I noticed a few this morning. But yea, it seems about right currently.

I would stabilize the wood by maybe working some 'epoxy wood filler' into the smaller cracks.

The larger crack in the butt, I would strengthen by parking a large 'fitted' hardwood 'dowel', coated with 'epoxy-bedding' into the lower lightening-cavity, also working epoxy into the crack edges, and then 'clamp' the crack closed to let the epoxy-bedding harden.
(The lower Cavity served no purpose, but to make the stock lighter, and is cover by the butt-plate).

I might enlarge the lower butt-plate screw hole a bit, so that the screw doesn't act like a 'wedge', reopening the 'split'.

Smaller hardwood dowels or threaded brass rods, coated with epoxy, could be inserted in diagonal holes to resist the crack reopening.

These repairs would all be hidden under the butt-plate.

Please make things look evenly worn and interesting, not new! (Your progress has been remarkable)!

(P.S. - A serial number, and clear close-up photos of the front and rear-sight, would allow us to determine if this is a 'real' model 1896 carbine).

I’m going to proceed cautiously when working on the stock. I’m not a fan of drilling irreversible holes in stocks but I think that if I don’t, that bottom crack will fully separate from recoil.


It would be easiest to just make the metal look like new, just break out the power tools. Preserving it while letting it show its age is quite a bit trickier.


Even though I didn’t make the decisions that lead to the condition that I found it, I did accept the responsibility of conserving it. I may hit the barrel band with glass bead just to clear out the giant rust divots. There are several and they are very deep. I may just poke around inside them with a pick to make sure there isn’t any ferric oxide under the magnetite.


I’ll post better photos of the sight and the serial. There is a “C” stamped on the ladder and the side graduates out to 600 yards.


I did go a little further with the bolt handle than I would have liked to but it’s my gun and this is about as rough as I want it to feel when I operate the bolt