Model 1899 School Carbine?

[John461]

I have a model 1899 Krag with a 22 inch barrel which is stepped down on the barrel at the site. The rear site is marked with a C. I have included some pictures to describe the carbine/rifle. Does anyone know what value may be put on it or what is the official designation.

Thanks,
John

[butlersrangers]

John461: Welcome to the KCA Forum. It looks like you may have a real 'School Rifle'. Many of these have been faked or made 'non-officially' and called 'Philippine Constabulary Carbines'. They are a risky item.
I believe the correct U.S. arsenal name was: "Carbines Altered to Take Knife Bayonet and Sling". They were produced, from 1906 to 1915, at Springfield, Manila, Rock Island, and maybe Benicia arsenals. About 10,000 were officially made for sale to Military Schools and the Philippine Constabulary.
(Many more were made by W. Stokes Kirk and 'Bubba the Elder'. They continue to be made to this day! There are also Movie Prop Guns and shortened 'VFW Guns').

Quality of workmanship, fit of parts, and appropriate stock 'cartouche' are probably the best evidence of authenticity. It is not likely that more than a few (if any) Philippine Constabulary Rifles could be in the U.S., but, 'School Rifles' do exist. IMHO - a convincing 'School Rifle' would be worth $700 to $1200, depending on condition. (I avoid them).

[Dick Hosmer]

That looks like a very nice specimen. Normally they are seen with the rifle (non-humped) handguard, but that is a very minor quibble - I certainly would not change it.

Is there a very well-fitted square plug in the front of the stock that appears to have been done long ago? Is the rounded front edge of the bayonet lug beveled (under appropriate patina)? Is the stock cartouche a block-lettered JFC, in a small, square-cornered, rectangle?

The beveled lug is often missed by the fakers. The arm was meant to be used with the longer 1905 bayonet which, while totally interchangeable with the Krag item, latches a bit differently and just works smoother with the bevel.

[John461]

Mr. Hosmer,
Thanks for the information. There is a square plug where you said and it does look very old. Also the bayonet lug looks real with the right patina. The marking on the stock is not good enough to see what it is. Do you know someone that may be in the market for this?

Thanks,
John

[John461]

The end of the barrel is rounded and the stamped box may have a c in it but it is hard to see.

[John461]

Butlers Rangers,
I appreciate the information. It is good to know it may be a real school rifle.
Thanks,
John

[butlersrangers]

Here is a detail picture of an obvious fake that was once on gunbroker. The crude workmanship gives it away.
Also, a picture of a Moro member of the Philippine Constabulary. His P.C. Rifle has a hand-guard with the 'lump' rear-sight protector.

[Dick Hosmer]

Mr. Hosmer,
Thanks for the information. There is a square plug where you said and it does look very old. Also the bayonet lug looks real with the right patina. The marking on the stock is not good enough to see what it is. Do you know someone that may be in the market for this?

Thanks,
John

You are quite welcome for the info. No, I do not know of anyone actively seeking a specimen at present.