1896 Sedgley sporter with head-space issue.

[CEH]

Attached are photos of my 1896 Sedgley in 25-35. I have owned the gun for nearly twenty years and only recently decided to shoot it. I quickly discovered the bolt wound not close on a round. I purchased a Foster Products "Go" gage and as expected the bolt would not fully rotate and lock. A round can be manually fed into the chamber and fully seats against the barrel with ease. I'm assuming correcting this issue would involve machining the bolt face and not removing the barrel. Am I correct? Any input would be most welcome.

Enjoy the photos, Chuck

[gunboat57]

Not a gunsmith, just a mechanical engineer. I have a couple of questions.

If you take the bolt out and seat a 25-35 cartridge on the bolt face, does it seat fully? Rim OD doesn't hang up on the recess in the bolt face?

If you close the bolt on an empty chamber and pull it rearward until the front lug is contacting its recess, is there a gap between the guide rib and the receiver at the right rear area of the ejection port?

I'm just looking for alternatives to removing material from the hardened bolt face.

Also, I think you can use a finishing chamber reamer to carefully deepen the chamber a few thousandths without removing the barrel. I did it once on a 303 Lee Enfield which also has a rimmed cartridge. Those reamers can be rented at a reasonable cost. Might be worth looking into.

Now let's get some input from people who really know what they're talking about. :)

Almost forgot to say, Welcome! and, nice looking rifle!

[CEH]

Removed the bolt this afternoon and photographed a case sitting in the bolt face with extractor. It was not determinable to my sixty year-old eyes but with a macro setting, photo flash and a digital camera it seems obvious (imho) that I have a couple .001" above the bolt face.
Thanks for the reply Gunboat. The bolt when closed on an empty chamber is tight. I'm not able to move it in either direction nor is there a gap between the guide rib and the receiver at the right rear area of the ejection port.

[psteinmayer]

In addition to the questions by Gunboat57, is the rim of a 25-35 thicker than the rim of a 30-40? Also, is it possible that the barrel extends too far into the receiver? I'm not positive... but I think in a normal 30-40, the bolt will feel slightly loose with no cartridge in the chamber. If your bolt is tight with no cartridge, there may be a problem with headspace, which is the rim face in a rimmed cartridge rifle.

Just a thought...

[butlersrangers]

CEH: My references give the rim diameter of the .25-35 cartridge as .506" and the rim thickness as .063". I suggest you disassemble your Sedgley/Krag bolt and see if the 'bare' bolt will close on a .25-35 cartridge. If it will, then possibly the problem is in the fit of the extractor hook. I would also measure the depth of the recess of the bolt face (It should be close to .063") and the thickness of your cartridge rims. If the 'bare' bolt will not close on a fully seated cartridge (with the front of the rim contacting the breech of the chamber) there has to be something out of specs: either rim thickness or bolt face recess depth. I think any correction would have to be machined off the barrel at the chamber mouth area. Note: (My Sedgley/Krag was rebarreled to .30-40 using an altered 1903 Springfield barrel. The bolt was lapped so that the front lug and the bolt rib both made contact with the receiver). Check your 'bare' bolt in the receiver and see if the rear edge of the bolt rib makes contact. This was done to strengthen the action.

[gunboat57]

Butlersrangers beat me to the draw.

CEH, how comfortable are you with taking apart your bolt until you have the bare-naked bolt body? I would add one experiment to what Butlersrangers suggested: Use a black magic-marker (or similar) and blacken the rear surface of the main lug and the rear of the guide rib. Also blacken the extreme front end on the bolt, that narrow circular surface that would hit the back of the barrel if it was going to hit. Then open and shut the bolt a few times on an empty chamber and see where things rub and where they don't.

[butlersrangers]

CEH: Are your .25-35 cartridges factory rounds or are they formed from some other cartridge case?

[CEH]

Holy Smokes Guys!!!! I've been given some serious tasking on my first post. Your to-do-list is longer than my wife's. I have the week off and it's raining--hey it's Washington. Looks as if I'll have to spend some quite time with a Sedgely and smelling Hoppe's #9---while I tell the Wife how serious this problem is, I'll be thinkin', " It don't get much better than this."
To answer some of the question:
1. Ammo is factory new Winchester 25-35.
2. 25-35 uses a 30-30 case and not the 30-40. My Foster "Go" gage list the 30-30 and 25-35 with the same part number. Big surprise to me.
3. Barrel is a Sedgley replacement so it could be positioned too deep into the receiver. Which would bring up the question as to if this gun has ever been shot? It's in nice--no excellent condition which would suggest lack of use. Duh!!!! I've owned it for nearly twenty years and just now what to shot it.
4. I'm quite comfortable in taking apart the bolt but it is the reassembly that baffles the beeejesus out of me ;-)
Gunboat--do you have steam plant experience? I'm ex Navy Machinist Mate and have blued check more than one high pressure drain. I'll check your suggestion and post results for all.

Thanks for the help Folks--more to follow. Attached are a few extra pic the Sedgley.

[RPRNY]

CEH: Are your .25-35 cartridges factory rounds or are they formed from some other cartridge case?

My first thought.

Before all the rest of your honey-do list, I'd check your 25-35 cartridges.

Rim diameter should be .500 and rim thickness .059, the former smaller than the 30-40 and the latter the exact same as the 30-40. Case length should be 2.04. I wonder about shoulder. Could the shoulder of these cases have been pushed forward when fired in another rifle?

Even if you had 25-35 brass formed from 30-30 brass, the rim thickness on the 30-30 is slightly less at .058. If rim thickness isn't an issue, I'd look at shoulder...

[madsenshooter]

I can't imagine anything getting out the door of R.F. Sedgeley's shop that wouldn't work. The others have you pointed in the right direction. Another possibility would be someone swapped the bolt body over the years before you got it, and didn't try it out afterwards. A bolt with a full width guide rib can bring some good coinage, and it might have had one. I could be wrong about that. In your close up pic of the fit of the guide rib, it appears it has been built up to bear on the receiver. Is that right, or am I seeing things? That vertical line isn't there on any of my guide ribs. If it has been built up, it is likely Sedgeley's work. But with things like these, and all the years in between, who can say for sure. However, stop and consider. One of two things has to take place in order to headspace a thinner than 30/40 rim correctly. Today's 30/40 rims are .060, but used to be thicker at .064. Either the bolt has to come forward, or the barrel face has to come back. With the low pressure generated by a 25-35, that contact may be the only contact, the front locking lug may act as the safety lug and not bear at all. Your list just got longer, but you're right, shoulder first!