Questions about US Krag short rifle

[Bill G]

I recently bought a US Krag 'short' rifle from an east Coast dealer. It was advertised as a schools rifle; but upon careful examination does not seem to fit neatly into any of the various constabulary/BOF/schools rifles(carbine) categories. The dealer claimed he had bought a couple of crates of older US rifles from a VFW post many years ago, and the crates were claimed to have been in storage since the 1920s. This gun, both in his photos, and upon my examination, certainly appeared to fit the part - very heavily covered with old dirt, filth and semi-hardened cosmoline. It had to be taken apart completely to clean it, and there did not appear to be any evidence whatsoever of recent work to it, nor attempts to modify it. The receiver is marked Model 1898; it has a very clean 1899 JSA stock cartouche. The muzzle end of the barrel has been machine turned down to accept a bayonet, and it has a '98 rifle front sight and blade (3/4" high overall) and appears to be very original, & NOT an '05 band sight. I very much doubt that it's constabulary rifle, as these are extremely rare, and Poyer's book states these were made from carbines (22" inch barrels), and the barrel on this gun is 22-3/8" long. I also doubt very much that it is a BOF gun, as Poyer states that these had 26" barrels made from cut-down rifle barrels. Also it has a 1901 rifle rear sight, not the specialized 1901 sight that the BOF guns had. As to whether it is a 'schools' gun, there are also discrepancies - Poyer states these were made from '98 and '99 carbines w/22" barrels, but as I stated the barrel on this gun has a 22-3/8" barrel; not possible that it could have been made from a carbine. He also states the rifle stocks used were cut down 8" on the fore end, but this one's stock was cut down only 7-1/2". Also-I do not believe the gun is one of the W. Stokes Kirk 'Short Rifles'; these had the '05 band front sight. My best guess is that this gun is a 'schools' gun made from a rifle. Anybody have ideas?...

[butlersrangers]

Bill G: Pictures of your short Krag, especially the front sight attachment to the barrel, would help generate some answers or opinions.

[Dick Hosmer]

From your description, I'd assume you have some sort of "unofficially shortened" arm made up, long ago, by outsiders, for some utilitarian purpose.

It cannot be a "proper" or "standard" or "normal" school gun, since they used actual carbine barrels, not cutoffs, and M1899-marked receivers. Supposedly there are no PCR's (which were converted at Manila) in the US.

It is absolutely not a BoOF rifle.

You sound quite knowledgeable, so I almost hate to ask, but you are measuring the barrel length in the bore, right?

[madsenshooter]

A lot of Veteran's organizations had gunsmiths as members it seems. Why they didn't make it up like a known model, I can't answer. Maybe so that people like us on down the road would know it wasn't original. WAG

[RustySpringfield]

Joe Poyer's book on the US Krag Rifle and Carbine has a section in the back (I have hard bound copy) covers these rifles. Kirk had them assembled from M1896 and M1898 U.S. Krag rifle parts. The M1898 action on my rifle was manufactured in 1904. The barrel and forearm were cut down to resemble a Philippine Constabulary Carbine with a Kirk band sight added to the muzzle (this front sight was a Kirk design; not a US 1905 sight). However, the muzzle was not relieved to accept a bayonet. The rear sight is a Model 1896 First Type (with small elevation knob) and Model 1896 handguard. It also has an original Kerr NoBuckl extended sling dated July 14, 1912. Poyer has an original advertisement that suggests that these models are good for general hunting.