A study in hats

[Culpeper]

The unit history and a couple of places state the 328th was issued M1917s. Saw a story a couple of years ago some miltary historians did a survey of the York site based on the German after action reports or some such thing and found the exact area York did his shooting. Even found the eight spent 45 acp cases.

Now where is did I see that article... I'll have to dig for it.

[Whig]

Interesting. I think that's bunk. I read a while ago that the historians couldn't even find the exact spot where this battle took place. Can you imagine someone saying they found those specific cases he fired? Too wonderful. I would doubt that could happen.

Just adds more color and mystery to this story...

[Culpeper]

supposedly, just a single Springfield M1903 rifle

IIRC, Sgt. Alvin York was armed with a 1917 Enfield for this action.

Did you say 1917?! Two 1917s and a fixed 1894 just before the final assault of Moonshiners Gap on the south face of the Bois de Argonne with General Wheeler and Alvin York. Protect the Likker and Children was our battle cry.

[Culpeper]

Found it.

http://www.sgtyorkdiscovery.com/the-york-gallery.html

[Whig]

This is why this is so interesting and controversial. in 2018 An investigator named James Clark reported that:

Attempts to find the exact site of the battle have also muddied the waters around Yorks description of events that day, with historians, supporters, and critics unable to pin down the exact site where the battle took place.

There is so much debate, whom should we believe?

I'm not enough of an historian to know how to ferret out fact from fiction with this stuff.

https://taskandpurpose.com/sgt-york-heroics-wwi

[butlersrangers]

Being distracted by his Sergeant, new shoes and hat, Private York did not realize a Springfield rifle was pointed at his crotch.

[Local Boy]

York was plum happy to be a receiving an America rifle and not one of them thar British guns!

Thanks for posting the "Sgt York Discovery Site" Culpeper...fascinating stuff!

I'm going to have to buy the book "Alvin York" by Col. Douglas V. Mastriano.

Here's part of a review of Mastriano's book that still begs the question...which type of rifle did Sgt York use?:

Quite interesting, but there is one nagging thing he should
have dealt with. He says that all the .30-06 casings show that they were fired by the M1917
Enfield. York's son Andrew has said several times that his dad told him that while he was
originally issued the M1917, in combat he used the Springfield, because he liked the sights
so much better than the Enfield. I guess this is a question that will never be solved, but I
think the author should have at least discussed what Andrew said.

Actually, Sgt York's wife claims that her husband said it was a Krag that he used and not a Springfield 1903 or 1917 Enfield (United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917). York told his wife that he used his Krag to "Civilize them Germans." ;)

[Culpeper]

If we are to believe York at his word it could be that he picked up a 1903. However men during that time were issued a gun and the serial number was recorded just like it was shown in the film. This was their gun and they had better well guarded it with their paychecks or else. It is difficult to believe one or a few private men would be allowed to have a rifle not of the same model as the rest of the division.

Picking up a unissued rifle would elicit the wrong type of questions from the Officers and NCOs I am certain.

From the History of the 328th.

Specialty schools were established by the Division in charge of
British and French instructors fresh from the fields of battle. Representatives from
each company were trained in these schools and soon each company had men capable
of instructing in auto rifle, hand grenade, rifle grenade, bayonet, gas defense and
sniping. Clothing and equipment was being received and issued daily and soon the
percentage of straw hats and tennis shoes at dress parades was on the decline. Saw
mills of the camp were rapidly turning out the "new model" Camp Gordon rifle and
soon each man was busily occupied in mastering the intricacies of the manual of
arms with this bed slat variety of fire arm. Work continued with this makeshift
equipment till about the first of February, 1918. Then we were fully equipped with
the United States Model 1917 Rifle and Bayonet.

pg 21 ->

[Culpeper]

pg 21

Our time here was spent in hard training under supervision of British training
cadres. Although we would all have preferred being in a strictly American sector,
the men took great interest in the instruction and worked hard. A large percentage
of the officers and many non-coms were sent for short courses in various schools
held by the British and very soon returned to their companies as qualified instructors
in the latest methods of using grenades, Lewis guns, Vickers machine guns, etc., and
the latest practices for gas defense.
About June 1st the Regiment moved by marching to a new area, twenty kilos distance, headquarters being located at Elincourt. The training schedule was continued
in earnest and very soon each company had experts with the Lewis gun and everybody was doing good shooting with the British rifle. The men had adjusted themselves to conditions and when night came were glad to go "home" to their respective
hay lofts for a few hours rest.

pg 23

sector here, orders were changed, and we turned in all our British equipment, again
drew American arms in their place, and on June 16th the Regiment entrained for an
American sector.



You will have to search the older posts over on Culvers to find the York discussion on this matter. I seem to recall some one found they were issued 1917s which stands to reason since the regulars were issued the springfield and the Guards and National units were getting the 1917 Enfields.

[psteinmayer]

Fascinating! I had no idea of the controversy surrounding the rifle. Most of the info I have read indicated the 1917. However, it's possible that if York's 1917 had a problem (and yes, sometimes the 1917 malfunctioned just like any other rifle sometimes do), he might have picked up what ever was available. Which ever the case, it still doesn't detract from his amazing actions that day... the man and the legend are one in the same!

Culp, thanks for posting that great site! I might just have to buy the book also...