Well guys, I dont quite know what to say. . . . . . but . . . . . . that same little voice in my head that I listened to last September, told me to troll for Krags once again, about three weeks ago, and, guess what - SAME result.
Yes, ANOTHER sleeper 26 barrel BoOF rifle has come to light!
Serial number (discernable in the 4th and final image) is 389182, which is a new one for the log, but note its proximity to 389185 (once owned by well-known Krag authority Tom Pearce) AND 389186, recently sold on AuctionArms, which had been reviewed by5MF, and given a clean bill of health.
Yes, Im well aware that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades; and, I have been one of the most vocal proponents of the even consecutive numbers mean nothing as to historical usage point of view. However, when a perfectly-done 26 muzzle/sight job turns up THAT near two known real specimens, for a truly insignificant price, with no Uncle Charlie story, one HAS to presume that it probably is a duck.
As far as I know, this latest one is only number 21 (actually number 20 if 385120 is asterisked pending review, as has been kicked around) out of the 100 made. Who can say how many others may still be out there, waiting to be discovered? I suspect at least a couple might well be out on the hunting trails - thats really not a bad barrel length for open country.
The (very) special sights on this one ARE correct, so the only flaw, outside of being a little dry and crusty (which WD40 and 0000 steel wool will take care of in short order) is a duffle-cut stock. Guess that now - since 388786 has not yet been restored - Ill have to set up a production line for 26 forend work!
I fully intend to keep right on looking - maybe a third will show up, which will permit me to stack arms. If that miracle should happen, Ill then be very glad to share my technique for quickly IDing these sleepers. Factoid: 5MF - in other ways brilliant - says he personally cannot do it! :-)
Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
- Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 2286
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Might be useful to update the table of them.
I'm glad it turned out to be a Board rifle. Congrats.
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
We are in the process of updating the list on the website right now. Should be taken care of soon.
- Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 2286
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Thanks, Tom!
Another thought - and I'm sorry I didn't have it sooner: Do you think that some simple and concise explanation of "observed" and "recorded" might be provided?
I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) that this list was, at least until I provided a few BoOF numbers, exclusively the work of Tom Pearce, and the "O" and "R" indicate - through HIS eyes - indicating arms actually seen, or not seen, by him? Or was it that one code represents data from an official source?
Sorry if this seems convoluted, but, IF I recall correctly, his explanation of which coding was supposed to be the "better" or "more likely to actually be correct" one was not what one might infer from the words themselves - hence the thought of putting something down in black and white.
Thanks again, and good hunting!
Another thought - and I'm sorry I didn't have it sooner: Do you think that some simple and concise explanation of "observed" and "recorded" might be provided?
I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) that this list was, at least until I provided a few BoOF numbers, exclusively the work of Tom Pearce, and the "O" and "R" indicate - through HIS eyes - indicating arms actually seen, or not seen, by him? Or was it that one code represents data from an official source?
Sorry if this seems convoluted, but, IF I recall correctly, his explanation of which coding was supposed to be the "better" or "more likely to actually be correct" one was not what one might infer from the words themselves - hence the thought of putting something down in black and white.
Thanks again, and good hunting!
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Congratulations on another great find Dick!! Drop me a line if you want to get rid of your "extra" one!!
- Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 2286
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Thanks, Ned. For awhile at least, I'm just going to enjoy owning (caretaking) them both - and, I AM going to keep on looking for that "stacker"; it's just too much fun not to. But, I'm almost 73, and nature will eventually take its' course. . . . . . .
However, it only makes sense to finally decide on one or the other. My impression is that the first one (388786) will prove to be the nicer, condition-wise, but I have not yet had a chance to really examine 389182, which has the huge advantage of having the correct sights. I don't intend to start swapping parts.
One of the reasons I've been dragging my feet on the first one is that I just hate to cut up the nice 1902 stock from another rifle, and, I am still not sure that the unmarked carbine stock and 1902C sight were not installed "officially". I'd certainly like to find the Board procedings, if they exist. 5MF may find them, who knows?
Ideally, now, I'd like to find a decent (but whacked) buttstock, with nice 1902 cartouche, even if I have to pay a bit more than it is really worth, and stretch both rifles at the same time. That is the least-invasive process I can think of to end up with what I want. I could never afford a real complete BoOF.
Could you please write up something for the classifieds?
Speaking of affording, it seems quite clear now that Mark Bobbett is aiming WAY too high on his duffle-cut BoOF. AFAIK, that rifle has not received so much as ONE single bid on Gunbroker, since last August! The public seems to be telling him, loud and clear, that $10,000 is just not realistic for a mutilated rifle, but then, he MAY have had to pay a lot to get it - that I do not know.
However, it only makes sense to finally decide on one or the other. My impression is that the first one (388786) will prove to be the nicer, condition-wise, but I have not yet had a chance to really examine 389182, which has the huge advantage of having the correct sights. I don't intend to start swapping parts.
One of the reasons I've been dragging my feet on the first one is that I just hate to cut up the nice 1902 stock from another rifle, and, I am still not sure that the unmarked carbine stock and 1902C sight were not installed "officially". I'd certainly like to find the Board procedings, if they exist. 5MF may find them, who knows?
Ideally, now, I'd like to find a decent (but whacked) buttstock, with nice 1902 cartouche, even if I have to pay a bit more than it is really worth, and stretch both rifles at the same time. That is the least-invasive process I can think of to end up with what I want. I could never afford a real complete BoOF.
Could you please write up something for the classifieds?
Speaking of affording, it seems quite clear now that Mark Bobbett is aiming WAY too high on his duffle-cut BoOF. AFAIK, that rifle has not received so much as ONE single bid on Gunbroker, since last August! The public seems to be telling him, loud and clear, that $10,000 is just not realistic for a mutilated rifle, but then, he MAY have had to pay a lot to get it - that I do not know.
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
One of the reasons I've been dragging my feet on the first one is that I just hate to cut up the nice 1902 stock from another rifle, and, I am still not sure that the unmarked carbine stock and 1902C sight were not installed "officially". I'd certainly like to find the Board procedings, if they exist. 5MF may find them, who knows?
Actually they might be there. The records go a year past that point. That's a lot of tape to wade through - won't be for a while. A long while.
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Another thought - and I'm sorry I didn't have it sooner: Do you think that some simple and concise explanation of "observed" and "recorded" might be provided?
Might be helpful to flag the entries Tom provided with "TP" so the parentage is maintained. Joe DeChristopher can expand the GP table if somebody sent him an email. Those could be identified by "JD." Outside of those two the rest are just going to be rumors maybe. I don't know. Other people are aware of other guns. I have a list with pictures which includes more than are on that list.
The two 1892 carbines have an 'O' and an 'R.' Might not be a bad addition to identify which is which. We know where 1015 sits.
![img](http://www.5madfarmers.com/gates/1892c.jpg)
![img](http://www.5madfarmers.com/gates/1892c-1.jpg)
Cheers.
- Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 2286
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Ned, I've pretty well decided NOT to shorten a good stock for my first BoOF, hence my current plan to set-up and do both forend restorations at the same time.
So, I am looking for a decent (but NOT "mint") Krag stock which has been bubba'd ahead of the band. MUST have a nice clear [JSA/1902] cartouche with considerable impression remaining - one sanded/worn down to a flat "one-dimension stained" look (such as on Bobbett's current GB offering) would NOT be acceptable.
NO extra holes, NO receiver sight notches, NO carved initials, etc. With or without furniture - but will not pay much extra for the buttplate, etc. as I do not need the metal parts.
Since I have a special need, I am willing to at least consider paying a little more than such a cut-off stock might normally fetch, to get exactly what I want. No "rush", but I'll purchase the "right" one without any delay. Please ask sellers to email pics and asking prices.
Many thanks.
So, I am looking for a decent (but NOT "mint") Krag stock which has been bubba'd ahead of the band. MUST have a nice clear [JSA/1902] cartouche with considerable impression remaining - one sanded/worn down to a flat "one-dimension stained" look (such as on Bobbett's current GB offering) would NOT be acceptable.
NO extra holes, NO receiver sight notches, NO carved initials, etc. With or without furniture - but will not pay much extra for the buttplate, etc. as I do not need the metal parts.
Since I have a special need, I am willing to at least consider paying a little more than such a cut-off stock might normally fetch, to get exactly what I want. No "rush", but I'll purchase the "right" one without any delay. Please ask sellers to email pics and asking prices.
Many thanks.
- butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Sleepers are where you find them - PHASE TWO!!
Bump for #385120 and BoOF content