I don't claim to be an expert, but I do know the telltale signs of a cut rifle vs. a true carbine. That being said...
I recently purchase an "1895 Carbine" (Model 1892, made in 1895) Even some die hard Krag guys are stumped after looking at it, as there is no such thing as an 1895 CARBINE.
Heres what I know...
1) The stock is a carbine stock, not a modified rifle stock. All have agreed on that one.
2) Cartouches have the circled "P", as well as some faint stamp marks that end with "_895"
3) The barrel length is 21 1/4" to the receiver, and appears to have not been cut.
4) The front sight appears to be that of an 1896 carbine, with a small "ivory piece" protruding rearward app. 1/32"
5) It has a model 1892 rear sight.
6) All wearmarks are consistent as though parts are original, except the 1892 rear sight, which has less wear than the rest of the firearm.
7) Serial #- 269XX
My questions are...
A) Was there such a thing as an 1895 carbine?
or
B) Would someone have changed the receiver on an 1896 carbine to an 1895?
or
C) Should I give up and take up stamp collecting?
1895 carbine? I have done my homework
-
fishnerd
Re: 1895 carbine? I have done my homework
Good news everyone!
The Springfield Research Service had the following information....
Two Krags, one <20 serial# below, and one <20 serial # above my Krag were issued to Troop F, 2nd Calvary on 7/14/1900. They were cleaned and repaired at the armory. These two were both designated as CARBINES by The Springfield Armory!!!
I am truly starting to believe I got my hands on a very early run of a true Krag carbine.
The Springfield Research Service had the following information....
Two Krags, one <20 serial# below, and one <20 serial # above my Krag were issued to Troop F, 2nd Calvary on 7/14/1900. They were cleaned and repaired at the armory. These two were both designated as CARBINES by The Springfield Armory!!!
I am truly starting to believe I got my hands on a very early run of a true Krag carbine.
-
Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 2291
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm
Re: 1895 carbine? I have done my homework
There definitely ARE numerous carbines with "1895" dated receivers. They will be just like 1896 carbines in almost all respects. I have posted pics of several of my Krags at www.picturetrail.com/sa4570af. Your gun should look EXACTLY like my 24893. The correct rear sight and handguard (if missing) will be VERY hard to find, and expensive. "Real" (they ARE being faked) 1896C rear sights go for over $700! Many people just put on a 96R sight instead - you DO want to get rid of the stepped 1892 sight as it would stand out as being wrong. Please feel free to contact me with any other questions.
Dick
Dick
-
fishnerd
Re: 1895 carbine? I have done my homework
My Krag appears to be the same as #24893.
The stock Definately is the same as yours, quite distinct from the 1896.
The extractor is the same as yours.
I do not know the different gas escape holes, please elaborate.
I will have to check holes for cleaning rods when I get back into town. I am guessing they are inside the buttstock, as there is no "ramrod space", as found in the rifle and most cut rifles.
You must have ESP, yes my handguard is missing. The even wear on the stock and bluing suggests it has been missing for quite along time.
Thanks for responding, Kyle
The stock Definately is the same as yours, quite distinct from the 1896.
The extractor is the same as yours.
I do not know the different gas escape holes, please elaborate.
I will have to check holes for cleaning rods when I get back into town. I am guessing they are inside the buttstock, as there is no "ramrod space", as found in the rifle and most cut rifles.
You must have ESP, yes my handguard is missing. The even wear on the stock and bluing suggests it has been missing for quite along time.
Thanks for responding, Kyle
-
Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 2291
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:11 pm
Re: 1895 carbine? I have done my homework
Kyle,
ALL of the early carbines are really Model 1896s. Collectors now call the VERY early ones, with the 1895 date, thin wrist, two rod holes (some guns only), sharp-cornered extractor, smaller safety lever (some guns only), the "1895 variant". The bolt gas hole issue runs well into 1896 production and is not exclusive to early carbines. These truly early carbines will fetch a premium over "standard" 1896 carbines, because survival rate is low - the thin stocks broke, and the design was changed. The "two rod holes only" feature is VERY rare today. Most 1896 carbines will have the thick-wrist stock like my 76381. Some will have replacement stocks of 1899 length. Oddly enough, the LEAST common receiver marking is not "1895" but "1896" (without "Model" ahead of it) since only about 5000 guns (including rifles and carbines) were so marked.
Early bolts have the gas escape hole ABOUT 1/4" ahead of the hold-open pin - later bolts have this hole right in line with the pin.
A perfectly adequate handguard can be made from a 96 rifle HG, which can now, again, be obtained in reproduction form, from S&S in New York. Do let us know how many holes are drilled in your buttstock.
Dick
ALL of the early carbines are really Model 1896s. Collectors now call the VERY early ones, with the 1895 date, thin wrist, two rod holes (some guns only), sharp-cornered extractor, smaller safety lever (some guns only), the "1895 variant". The bolt gas hole issue runs well into 1896 production and is not exclusive to early carbines. These truly early carbines will fetch a premium over "standard" 1896 carbines, because survival rate is low - the thin stocks broke, and the design was changed. The "two rod holes only" feature is VERY rare today. Most 1896 carbines will have the thick-wrist stock like my 76381. Some will have replacement stocks of 1899 length. Oddly enough, the LEAST common receiver marking is not "1895" but "1896" (without "Model" ahead of it) since only about 5000 guns (including rifles and carbines) were so marked.
Early bolts have the gas escape hole ABOUT 1/4" ahead of the hold-open pin - later bolts have this hole right in line with the pin.
A perfectly adequate handguard can be made from a 96 rifle HG, which can now, again, be obtained in reproduction form, from S&S in New York. Do let us know how many holes are drilled in your buttstock.
Dick
-
fishnerd
Re: 1895 carbine? I have done my homework
Dick, et al,
I am back in town, and yes, my Krag was the first thing I went for when I got in the door.
1) I do have the "1895 variant" stock as does #24893
2) I have three cleaning rod holes in a triangular pattern.
3) Gas escape hole is inline with the bolt hold open
4) The extactor edges on top are rounded. The rest are not rounded, and quite sharp.
5) The safety size appears the same as your 70210 (receiver markings shown) picture
The complete serial number is 26930. The receiver is marked "1895." not "model 1895"
Oh well, I may not have gotten an ultra rare Krag, but $900 for a not sporterized carbine was good enough to keep me happy.
Thanks for the info, I will continue to visit this site.
Kyle
I am back in town, and yes, my Krag was the first thing I went for when I got in the door.
1) I do have the "1895 variant" stock as does #24893
2) I have three cleaning rod holes in a triangular pattern.
3) Gas escape hole is inline with the bolt hold open
4) The extactor edges on top are rounded. The rest are not rounded, and quite sharp.
5) The safety size appears the same as your 70210 (receiver markings shown) picture
The complete serial number is 26930. The receiver is marked "1895." not "model 1895"
Oh well, I may not have gotten an ultra rare Krag, but $900 for a not sporterized carbine was good enough to keep me happy.
Thanks for the info, I will continue to visit this site.
Kyle
-
fishnerd
Re: 1895 carbine? I have done my homework
CALLING ALL EXPERTS
For insurance purposes, as this is an antique, what should I declare its value at??? I have no intentions of selling it, but feel it should be specifically mentioned in my policy, as burglaries are not uncommon in Baltimore.
Kyle
PS- I do have a list of make, model, sn, etc of all firearms in a safe... just in case. All of my firearms are also under lock and key.
For insurance purposes, as this is an antique, what should I declare its value at??? I have no intentions of selling it, but feel it should be specifically mentioned in my policy, as burglaries are not uncommon in Baltimore.
Kyle
PS- I do have a list of make, model, sn, etc of all firearms in a safe... just in case. All of my firearms are also under lock and key.