1898 Krag Missing Serial # Question

[1911Ron]

Welcome Mark!

[Local Boy]

In "The Krag Rifle Story", 2nd Edition, Chapter 19: Collectors Notes there's a paragraph that states:

"Prototype Model 1898 rifles were marked "Model 1897", and receivers of rifles chambered for experimental cannelured cartridges were marked "Model 1899". These rifles have no serial numbers".

Maybe just adding to the mystery since we're talking rifles and your carbine is not marked Model 1897 or 1899.

[Marksc]

Wow, There's a mind bender. Does a P stamped on barrel 1/2" up from receiver help with anything. There is a P also on the front ring of receiver where barrel connects to receiver.
Great Info.

[butlersrangers]

The "P" on the barrel and the "P" on the front of the receiver ring are the standard Springfield Armory marks, indicating the parts had been tested with Proof Loads.

Receivers and barrels were proof tested before being assembled into arms. Barrels were proofed before being rifled.

Receivers received stamped markings and serial numbers after heat treat.

Numbered/completed receivers went into 'parts' bins', and were pulled out (kind of) randomly for assembly, hence the difficulty in exactly dating Krags by serial number.

Completed Krags underwent a final proof procedure and received the 'circle P' stamp on the stock. (Description attached).

The U.S. government paid a royalty on each Krag-Jorgensen that Springfield Armory manufactured.

I do not know why your receiver appears 'unnumbered'.

FWIW - Possibly, the number was skillfully removed (or filled in with weld) and re-contoured by someone?

Maybe, a Springfield Armory worker stole a receiver, prior to numbering, and took it home in his lunch-pail to build his own Krag?

It was a 'Special-Ops Krag', used in an undocumented secret mission? (Joking).

Several S.A. workmen and inspectors screwed up on a Monday morning and stiffed the Norwegians?

(I am skeptical of the prototype thing).

It boggles the imagination and probably makes you a Felon! (Just kidding).

[Marksc]

I am going to take some better pics and post. It definitely has not been altered or welded and resurfaced. I am 100 percent sure now that it has been broke down and examined it is a carbine that has never had a serial number stamped on it. I am still open to suggestions and appreciate all the knowledge everyone is giving. Thank you everybody.

[butlersrangers]

Here is a possible thought:

Maybe the OP's receiver was rejected, for being out of specifications or having a defect, before it received a serial number?

Surplus dealers like, Bannerman's and Stokes Kirk, bought up surplus parts, unfinished parts, and Springfield Armory 'junk', in government auctions.

These two companies built a lot of Krag 'parts guns' in the 1920s and 1930s that often perplex collectors.

There is an area of the OP's receiver that has not looked right to me from the start.

Maybe it is just an optical illusion exaggerated by the removed cut-off and missing wood, or maybe, it is a machining mistake that caused rejection?

I have circled the receiver area that looks odd and kind of gouged to me. I have also included a couple of pictures of that area from a model 1898 and a model 1899 action.

[butlersrangers]

Marksc - Could you post a clear, up close, picture of your front-sight attachment and muzzle crown?

(This is always a valuable clue on carbine barrels).

Attached is a picture of two Stokes Kirk catalog pages. Some "carbines" have been made privately, outside Springfield Armory, (in the early 1900s and since), from surplus parts.

A carbine stock with no cartouche or 'circle P' stamp was likely put on outside of Springfield Armory.

[FredC]

Butlers Rangers, you might be onto something there. Another possibility is that it was not defective but some experiment was started on that particular receiver that did not work out.
The area circled looks like it was milled out on purpose, maybe a sight was planned? It would be interesting to see it with the stock removed. If the "milled" flat area has a mounting hole and the whole area is hard, then it was done before heat treat at the arsenal and it is not some bubba's craziness.

[butlersrangers]

IIRC - The U.S. Krag receiver went through 120 machine operations. To speed up the process, receivers were held in fixtures in pairs, so that machining operations were performed on two receivers simultaneously.

That odd 'angled' cut on the OP"s receiver looks like it could have been a mistake caused by something getting out of whack during a shaping operation???

IMHO - If something was cosmetically or dimensionally wrong with a part, during the course of Krag production, it would have been noticed with all the inspections and gauging that went on. Likely, the part would have been 'tossed into a scrap bin'. A receiver was likely "Right" before giving it a serial number and facing the prospect of paying royalties.

Some experimental Krags, like Cole and Metford rifling tests and Parkhurst Device trials, were documented by serial number.

Serial numbers are a handy thing to have on prototype, test, and trial rifles for identification and comparison purposes.

(I'm not a Machinist, but, my father sure was! I'd like to see more details on that Krag. It's an interesting puzzle).

[Marksc]

The picture of receiver shows like there is milling lines. There is no machining on it. when I got it , it was laying on a wash cloth upside down half stuck to it. when I pulled it off it left those lines from rag. not wanting to do anything I just rub it down with Hoppes oil.