Grandpa's Krag Carbine.

[Man-Goat]

Hello everyone at the Krag Collectors Association! I want to thank you all for your great help with identifying these wonderful antiques.

A long time ago my grandpa would show me his rifles that he collected and tell me about them. Unfortunately I was too young to appreciate what he was telling me and he passed before I was old enough to understand. However, he did leave me some very nice rifles. One of which I would like to pick your brains about now!

I think I may have the coveted 1898 carbine. I know that you guys must get dozens of these posts that you have to debunk, so let me give you all the pertinent information that I can find and some pictures.

Stamped on the receiver.
MODEL 1898. U.S. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. 127280

The front sight is not banded and is a brazed dovetail. The front hand guard band is held on by a spring loaded clip and there is a 'U' stamped on the band. The rear sight looks to be the oddball. It seems to be a 1901 rear sight with all 3 proper 'C' stamps. The barrel is damn near perfect 22". (My measuring tape is awful.) There is a faded cartouche on the left wrist that looks to be of the box type with 3 letters and a number. This is seriously faded though. Underneath behind the trigger guard there is a circle with a fancy 'P' and the number 24 stamped. I think this means that it was returned for armory service. The butt pate is metal with one flat head screw and a opening stock hole.

The pictures are too large to attach so I have uploaded them to imgur and you may peruse them at your leisure.

http://imgur.com/a/W9Sd7

~Man-Goat

[psteinmayer]

Howdy Man-Goat... Welcome to the forum, and to the wonderful world of Krags!

Well, by all outward appearances, you seem to have the 1898 Carbine, however, those more well versed in the appropriate serial numbers can comment whether it is in range or not... but IIRC, I think it is. The barrel is measured from the muzzle to the closed bolt face. Speaking of bolts, where is it? Is it missing, or just removed in the pictures? Did you look in the butt-plate trap to see if the cleaning rods and oiler were there? Anyway, if it does prove to be the 1898 Carbine, you have inherited something special, and much sought after!

[Man-Goat]

Thank you for the welcome Psteinmayer! I have an old habit of removing the bolts of all my stored firearms and locking them in a separate ammo case. I do have the bolt and the action is still as smooth as silk. There are actually 4 letters stamped into the underside of the bolt arm. I'll take a picture of that tomorrow. I have not pried open the butt plate tap. It's a little rusted and I didn't want to hurt the metal. I'll get some penetrating oil in a fine syringe and try to open it tomorrow. I measured from the tip of the barrel to the back edge of the top wooden furniture. It's pretty much spot on 22".

Part of me wants to fire it and the other wants to have it sealed in some sort of collectors case so it will never age. The bore is immaculate and the internals of the action are pristine.

I do have a dumb question. Is there any way for me to trace the carbine's history? Sort of similar to a genealogy with where it was made, issued, who it was issued to, where she went? If so that would be absolutely amazing!

Thanks again for all the info! Anyone and everyone is always welcome to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer them!

~Man-Goat

[butlersrangers]

'Man-Goat' - Welcome! I am glad you inherited some of your Grandfather's guns.

Your model 1898 Krag, #127280, is in the serial number range for 1898 carbines, but, there are also plenty of rifles mixed in that range. Your serial number is not listed in the Springfield Research Services data.

Your front sight base looks pretty correct, but, there appear to be rough 'file marks' on the rear of the base, which makes me a bit suspicious. (Maybe someone just scored it with a file to break up light reflection)??

A clear picture of the muzzle 'crown' will tell a lot. Also, if your Krag has an original carbine front blade, there will be a small "C" on the blade's right side.

Most collectors desire the model 1898 carbine, as originally issued. This has a different stock, rear-sight, barrel-band, and hand-guard than yours.

(Model 1898 carbines were issued with a 'short forearm' stock, model 1896 carbine rear-sight, and a hand-guard that ended at the front of the rear-sight. The barrel-band had sight protecting 'ears' and there was a carbine 'sling-ring & bar' on the left stock 'wrist').

Your carbine was 'updated' to model 1899 carbine configuration - 'long forearm' stock, model 1901 carbine rear-sight, 'humped' 1899 protective hand-guard, which was introduced in late 1901, and no sling-ring & bar.

Your carbine is still quite desirable and was probably updated at Springfield Armory, but, its value is about the same as a model 1899 carbine.

Your Krag was built around September 1898.

The (stock marking) 'Acceptance Cartouche', contains the initials "J.S.A." (Joseph Sumner Adams). He was the Foreman of the shops at Springfield. This marking indicates an arm was accepted for service. The "Circled P" indicates an arm was 'proofed' and tested for function.

It is quite possible these markings were put on this stock when it was on a different carbine. Many Krags underwent multiple 'rebuilds' or were refurbished. The arms were taken apart and parts were mixed.

[butlersrangers]

'Man-Goat' - Shoot your Grandfather's Krag - It won't hurt it!

Basic cleaning after shooting will keep it looking fine. A Penny makes a fine tool for opening the butt-trap. That spring is quite strong. Hopefully you find some goodies!

[Man-Goat]

Good morning! That's really cool information, thank you Butlersrangers! What's the Springfield Research Service all about? I've read a little on it but was confused as to how it worked. I popped the butt trap open, after stabbing myself with the screwdriver, there was nothing stored inside. No gold dabloons and not even a treasure map!

I have some more pictures for you guys. The front sight blade has a really worn down mark that looks like it could have been a 'C'. There is also what looks to be a 'C' and other letters on the bolt handle. The muzzle crown is very rounded off and not cut flat at all.

Thanks again for all your help! You guys are great.

~Man-Goat

[butlersrangers]

'Man-Goat' - Your muzzle-crown and front sight-base mounting look correct for a Krag carbine barrel. I would say it is the real deal - a model 1898 Krag carbine that was updated in the early 1900s to a model 1899 ('configuration') at Springfield.

FWIW - The markings on the bolt were inspection stamps during bolt manufacture. I don't think anyone living now understands them. It is not likely the "c" has anything to do with 'carbine'.

"SRS" - refers to mention of U.S. arms (by Serial Number) found and collected by Franklin Mallory (and others) in official documents. The findings were published in a set of volumes, now out of print.

Only a very small percentage of Arms showed up in surviving and found records.

The second edition, of Mallory's "The Krag Rifle Story", has Tables in the Appendix, listing the Krags he found in documents. (Maybe less than 5% of Krags produced, IIRC).

SRS information, now, is supplied mainly by fellow enthusiasts, who have access to SRS volumes or KRS tables and kindly do 'look ups'.

[Man-Goat]

That's wonderful! You guys are amazing and exceedingly helpful for doing the look ups. Thank you very much.

Now a thought occurred to me. In your professional opinion, would it be worth it to seek out the original furniture and rear sight so that I might restore it to how it was issued? What sort of price range you think that would be in, if possible at all. Or should I keep it the way it is and enjoy it for all of its history?

Also, if I were to fire it off, what rounds would be the best match for the sight markings and easiest for the carbine to handle? Are there any loads to stay away from that might do it damage?

~Man-Goat

[butlersrangers]

Man-Goat - I am not a professional, but, a talented amateur.

The 'Titanic' was built by Professionals. The Ark was built by Amateurs.

IMHO - Leave your Krag as is. It is a family heirloom and the way your Grandfather used it. It is probably in the configuration in which it left government service.

A good load to start with is the 180 grain Round-Nosed factory hunting ammo, if you can find it. Most Krags do very well with this load. Save your Brass! If you enjoy shooting your Krag, you will become a 'Reloader', eventually.

[Man-Goat]

I like you Butlersrangers, your candor is appreciated by this working man. I want to sincerely thank you for all your help and time on this subject. Thank you. And thank everyone here for being welcoming and so full of information.

I've read a little about reloading. It seems like something that would be fun to do! However getting started is rather intimidating to be honest. There are so many techniques and terms to learn off the bat that it boggles my mind. Do you think a reloading kit could be stored when not in use? I have limited space in my current accommodations. If/when I put the coin down to start reloading, which I should with the amount I like to shoot, I'll most definitely start a thread on this forum to pick your guys' collective brains about loads and the like.

About how much is it to get started reloading? What's the cost savings look like? Also, can you make your own brass? I know a guy that has a lathe and can spin aluminum, which I assume is similar to brass.

I have some more interesting old firearms that I might want to pick your collective brains about a little later. Allen and Thurber derringer, Allen and Wheelock revolver, m1903 a3, Winchester m97, and a My Friend pistol thing.

I also noticed that at the national matches at camp Perry they are having a 30-40 krag / 1903 commemorative match honouring Roosevelt. That's pretty cool! I wish I could justify the trip out to Ohio on such short notice.

Thanks again guys! You haven't heard the last of me!!!!

~Man-Goat