Military Krags at Camp Perry or Sea Girt

[reincarnated]

What was the last year that it was permissible for National Guard or other teams to use issue Krags in the National Matches? 1910?

I remember reading something that Townsend Whelen wrote about "the Krag being ruled off the field" so that the guys with the New Springfield could win something.

[Cat Man]

Interesting question. Dick Culver in a 2002 article about the 1909 Excellence in Competition or EIC (LEG) matches states that the Krag was the prescribed rifle for the National Trophy Matches through 1906. In 1907 the M1903 rifle became the official and only approved service rifle for the matches. That was the first year the matches were fired at Camp Perry.

In Clark Campbell's book on the M1903, he states that sales of M1903 rifles to civilian riflemen did not begin until 1910.

I need to confirm but Civilian shooters at the National Matches 1907 to 1910 could not own an 03 but could draw an M1903, fire the National matches and return it to Army inventory after the matches.

Culver also mentions that from 1907 to 1912 the rapid fire stage was fired in two separate 5 shot strings. A hold over from the Krag. By 1913 the rules were changed to utilize the clip slot of the 03 in a single 10 shot rapid fire string.

Thankfully the recent creation of vintage rifle matches by the CMP returns the Krag to the firing line 100 years after it left. And yes you can get off two 5 shot groups in modern rapid fire with a vintage Krag! "All Ready On The Firing Line"!

[reincarnated]

My reason for asking was that on Ancestry.com I came across the 1909 U.S. Adjutant General report for Ohio. When I looked at it in detail, it turned out to be the scores for matches fired at Camp Perry. Winner of the 600 yard and the 200/600 composite was Dr. Walter Hudson, Manhattan Rifle Club. 2nd Place at the 600 and 6th with the 200/600 composite was W. Milton Farrow, 1st Lieutenant, District of Columbia National Guard.

Hudson, a dentist, was a considerable marksman, developer of the Hudson bullets used in the Krag cartridge and commonly used a Krag in military-type matches.

Farrow was 61 years old (b. 1848) and was perhaps a bit past his prime. Farrow was probably the best marksman in the US from 1880 to about 1890. He held the record for 1,000 yards, (shot with a .38-55) for many years. He was the inventor of the several Farrow actions and the manager of The Farrow Arms Company, then of Washington, DC.

[Keith Herrington]

I remember reading something that Townsend Whelen wrote about "the Krag being ruled off the field" so that the guys with the New Springfield could win something.

I think the way to answer the central question asked by the OP is to look at the slow fire scores before and after the Krag left the field. Did they go up or down? I'd expect that 1903 scores improved over time as the cartridge was improved and shooters got accustomed to the new rifle, but immediately before and after the switch should tell you whether the Krag had any competitive advantage.

[butlersrangers]

FWIW: A tricky part about reincarnated's question is the reference to 'Team' and 'National Matches'.

If the real question is: "How long was the Krag being used in NRA - U.S. Military Matches"? The answer appears to be: ".... until sometime after WW1, by Civilians and Militia Organizations".

I have a Remington U.M.C. "Score Book", 3rd. edition. (There is no printing date, but, it does contain a couple of references to the Model '17 U. S. Service Rifle). This score book is titled 'For the United States Rifle Model 1903 and the United States Magazine Rifle Model 1898 (Krag)'.

The score book states, on page 13: "....The National Rifle Association Matches are held on the same range as the Government's National Matches, usually during the week preceding them. Civilians who are members of N. R. A. rifle clubs in good standing are eligible to compete in the Government's National Individual Match, for the military rifle shooting championship of the United States, and all matches of the N. R. A."

(At least in the NRA 'Qualification Course', "any rifle may be used......").
It would appear some Civilian and Militia shooters were still competing with Krags, circa 1918.

[butlersrangers]

Three more details: (note - additional time allowed for Krag in rapid fire and current issue of 1902 sight).

[madsenshooter]

Extra time for the Krag? You'd have thought some enterprising tinsmith would have come up with something like parshooter's charger.

[butlersrangers]

Some 1908 shooting pics at Sea Girt, N.J. - Hey that new Springfield is a nice rifle too!