Krag Collectors Association Forum

Howdy Folks,

New to the board and first time poster. I'm a novice military surplus arms collector and recently acquired a Krag. A buddy was pining away for a Chassepot bayonet of mine and decided to trade his Krag for the bayonet! Of course I said "lets shake on it" and gave him his bayonet before he changed his mine. So now I have Krag but I'm not sure if it's a carbine or a cut down rifle. Any additional information about the Krag's history and value would be GREATLY APPRECIATED! Here are the Facts:

1. Receiver marked "US Model 1896 Springfield Armory"
2. Serial#: 72,861
3. 1896 rifle rear sight (no "C" marking)
4. Front sight is atypical or banded
5. Barrel appears to be 22 inches
6. Barrel stamped with a "K" and "P"
7. Barrel diameter at the muzzle is .62 in
8. Barrel diameter behind front sight is .66 in
9. Barrel has 4 grooves
10. Stock stamped "34" behind trigger guard
11. Hand guard stamped with "99" on the inside
12. No cartouches or sling swivels
13. Butt plate oilier cover stamped "25"
14. Weapon was used to kill many moose... OK, not sure about that fact but that's what my friend told me. ::)

Possibilities:
1. Rifle was manufactured in 1897
2. Rifle falls within the M1896 carbine range 67,000-79,499
3. Arsenal refurbished in 1899
4. Front sight is a butchered 1903 sight
5. Maybe an infamous DCM/Bannerman chop job
6. Used in the Spanish American War
7. Rough Rider... Don't think so since serial doesn't match Rough Rider issue numbers. But maybe...

So there you have it Sherlock! What do you think?

Respectfully,

Tony

Additional photos.

'Local Boy' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

I can't tell you much more than you have already concluded. Your Krag, # 72,861, was built around September, 1897. The number places it amongst a large group of model 1896 carbines, but, there are also some model 1896 rifles nearby. Barrel diameter is no help because rifle and carbines barrels have the same dimensions 22 inches from the breech.

Your Stock is a real carbine stock, but, it is a 'long forearm' stock. It was used as a replacement to bring refurbished model 1896 carbines more in conformity with the 'styling' of the model 1899 carbine. Replacement stocks will normally lack a cartouche and, if replaced in the field, will lack the 'circled P' (Proof).

More detailed photos of your Krag's muzzle crown and front-sight might allow further conjecture, however, this is all academic. There is no way of telling if your Krag started as a carbine. The identity of the barrel is lost with the replacement 'banded' front-sight and rifle rear-sight. The 1899 style stock 'upgrade' is not the 1896 carbine configuration that most collectors seek. Anybody could have put your very nice assortment of desirable parts together. It is unlikely it was Springfield Armory or Benicia (unless you have a sales receipt for an N.R.A. carbine).

Your nice looking Krag "'carbine's" value - IMHO - is very much related to the value of its parts and utility, (About $400-$500). It is not (or at least any longer) a real carbine.

Ooops, I just received your additional photos. IMHO - muzzle crown is wrong and suggests shortened rifle barrel, front-sight is commercial and suggestive of Stokes Kirk. (Note - The original Barrel on your action could have been replaced in the 'after market').

Butlersrangers,

Hey THANK YOU so much for the fast investigative work!!!
You guys are a tremendous wealth of information. The Stokes information sure does explain why I couldn't say for sure that the front sight was a 1903. The darn rifle kept sending me through a loop since it didn't match the common rifle/carbine configurations that I kept coming with. However, it didn't seem to be "shade tree arsenal" modified as well. Regardless, you guys are awesome. Makes me wish I had the family, unfortunately, drug addicted family members and pawn shops go hand-in-hand. :'( Good news is the family member is back on their feet and doing well. :)

Excuse me. I meant to say "Family Krag".

'Tony' - You have a nice looking Krag to play with now. The stock and hand-guard are its most valuable assets. Enjoy shooting it!

The 99 carbine stock cut for the 96 bolt handle channel is a bit of a rarity in itself. There weren't many of them made. I wonder if the original front sight slot is under your sight.

madsenshooter,

Hi thank you for you input.

I'm just guessing that if there was a sight slot it was probably milled/ground off so the current sight could be put in its place. The barrel diameter seems to be smaller, where the sight sits, and bigger behind it. It would be interesting to see if there is some indication of a sight slot. I can't find any pins in the sight so I think that it was possibly soldered to the barrel. Anyway, I have since purchased an original 1896 carbine barrel to replace the one currently installed.

Tony

Received the replacement barrel, however, it turned out to be 21 inches instead of the 22 inches as advertised. :'( All my research indicates that original carbine barrels have to be 22 inches. Any exceptions to the rule??? The seller said I can send back the barrel for a full refund but I'd be willing to keep it if there's any chance that it might be legit? Any thoughts on this matter???