Can you tell me what kind of Krag I have? Value?

[buckstix]

Hello All,

I'm a new member.

Can you tell me what kind of Krag I have? I would also like some kind of estimate of value.

I'll post pictures in next post.

[buckstix]

Here are all the pictures. Can you tell me what kind of Krag I have? - I would also like some kind of estimate of value.

[GregCandR]

It looks like a M1897 Engineer carbine. Mismatched numbers on most parts will hurt value along with refinished stock. But they come up so seldom it is hard to put a value on it. Maybe someone else can add more info.

[buckstix]

Hello GregCandR,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, you got it. After your post I found this picture on the internet.

You are correct about the miss-match numbers. Rifle # 351- Barrel # 351 - Rear Sight # 351 - Stock # 351 - Follower # 351 - Bolt # 4160 - Butt Plate # 4550 - Front Band # 4582 - Trigger Guard # 4582

The stock shows a few repairs (fillers) that look professional. (not babba-smithed) Could an Arsenal rebuild account for the miss-matched numbers? Although the numbers don't match, the wear patterns of all the parts are very uniform and identical.

Can you tell me anything more about these? Do you know how many were made? Any History?

[GregCandR]

Interestingly enough after looking into it, the year of manufacture and the serial number peg this carbine as a M1895. The M1897 was made from 1900 to 1902 with 3,466 made starting at serial number 3131.

Your carbine was made from 1898 to 1907. With serials 1 - 850 made the first year, 5,843 made in total. So yours appears to be a mixture of the 2. The stock is clearly M1897 but with a M1895 serial number.

I am not sure what your carbine has gone through lol. I don't think an arsenal would throw this together without a matching bolt, but who knows. My reference is in Norwegian, so they might have mentioned a throw together, but I would think they would at least match the bolt like the Swedes.

Most of these have been butchered in the US to make hunting rifles I hear. I personally have never seen on in person though.

If you are looking to put a value on it to sell it, keep me in mind if you do. I have never seen one for sale so I wouldn't venture a guess.
Good luck

[buckstix]

Hello GregCandR,

Thanks for the reply.

That's very interesting. Remember in my first post I said there were some repairs to the stock (fillers) that looked very professional making me think it may have been an arsenal re-work.

Upon close examination, I see now that the filler was from the relocation of the rear sling swivel. (transforming the stock into an Engineer and Artillery carbine stock - from a Cavalry carbine stock) - see picture - Also, the stock is serial numbered to the receiver.

I don't think this work would have been done by any U.S. babba-smith. (butcher) This modification (upgrade?) looks like some of the arsenal rebuilds that I've seen over the years on other Military rifles. The swivel plug is a "precision fit" wooden plug, not filler.

By the way, I checked the headspace, and its "spot-on".

your thoughts?

[butlersrangers]

Norwegian Krag, number 351, was built in 1898 at Kongsberg Vapenfabrikk, as a Cavalry Carbine model 1895.

It likely was altered at a later time to the Mountain Artillery/Royal Engineers sling arrangement.

IMHO - It's only a wild guess as to when and how the bolt got switched.

Since the action, stock, and likely barrel numbers match, I doubt if the bolt switch was official.

(Norway was an 'occupied country' during WW2).

[GregCandR]

Hello again,
Sorry when I mentioned most of these were butchered, I was not referring to yours. Yours has a hand guard and the stock doesn't look like it was sanded down, as your numbers are crisp on the stock. Though some of the pictures have a shiny or oiled look to them. It does indeed look to have been changed into a M1897 stock configuration most likely during an upgrade or modification at an arsenal, which is very interesting indeed.

With the butt plate, barrel band and bolt not matching I wouldn't think it was put together like that at an arsenal. It is so hard to tell what happened to these guns. Could it have been a bring back from the war after being sent to Germany like many Danish Krags? A lot of those have non matching bolts. All speculation on my part though.

[buckstix]

Hello butlersrangers,
Hello GregCandR,

Thanks for your reply.

I don't know what Norway did within their arsenal re-build programs, but with US Military weapons, many had parts randomly switched by various arsenals during rebuilds and re-rebuilds. i.e. Colt Single Action Army Artillery revolvers had mixed barrels, cylinders, grip frames, trigger-guards, and grips. As did U.S. M1 Garands and M1 carbines which had mixed bolts, barrels, trigger-groups, op-rods, and stocks, etc.

As another example, last month I was lucky enough to receive a Service Grade 1911A1 in the CMP lottery of 8,000 pistols. The Service Grade was the highest grade offered. All of these pistols were totally rebuilt at least once, and some twice, after the Korean War, and again in the 1970s, and put into long term storage for future reissue to our soldiers. Since the pistols were dropped for reissue in October of 1986, and were replaced by the 9 mm Beretta M9, the U.S. Government has released some to the CMP for sale to members. I received a 1941 Colt 1911A1 that was 100% MINT, as rebuilt by the Anniston Army Depot in March of 1978. (stamped "ANAD 3/78") Mine had a Colt Frame, an Ithaca Slide, a Commercial barrel, and a 1970s contract Magazine, and mixed internals.

All the above mentioned weapons are 100% correct as modified by various arsenals. Our Military, like that of other Countries, is not interested in preserving collector pieces, just keeping their weapons in top condition ready for issue.

I also have a Mauser Model 1891 Artillery Carbine with a miss-matched bolt. In that case the original number was "slashed-out" and re-numbered to the gun. Sorry to be so long winded, but I've learned to "never-say-never" when it comes to Military weapons.

[butlersrangers]

You can post your questions on Gunboards Forum. They have a specific Scandinavian weapons forum that covers Krags and other Nordic arms.

There are knowledgeable Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish collectors, who frequent that forum.

Their opinions and knowledge of European records might further answer your questions.