My brother (due to massive headaches) sold me all his shooting stuff...21 rifles, ammo and reloading gear...and one of them is this Danish Krag-Jorgenson. I don't know anything about it. In the stuff I also got 8x58 reloading dies and 50 new pieces of brass (from Buffalo brass). I reload...but, I'm not sure I want to delve into this one. However, the bolt is the smoothest bolt I have ever had. Is anyone willing to help me understand what I have...and how I can determine if it is safe? (I can't find 8x58 reloading recipes in my usual books)
Links to pix will be in the next posting
Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
links to pictures...while I try to figure out how to merely post the pictures...
https://ibb.co/sPvmby2
https://ibb.co/dWXFWCw
https://ibb.co/dQC2nPN
https://ibb.co/9G02H0x
https://ibb.co/sw5Qt3r
https://ibb.co/xGR1K7V
https://ibb.co/8XfWM3t
https://ibb.co/k14sMtL
https://ibb.co/pL2snBK
https://ibb.co/VQkvvLq
https://ibb.co/GvZq7Cs
https://ibb.co/3yVjv2q
https://ibb.co/z8NKbcq
https://ibb.co/sPvmby2
https://ibb.co/dWXFWCw
https://ibb.co/dQC2nPN
https://ibb.co/9G02H0x
https://ibb.co/sw5Qt3r
https://ibb.co/xGR1K7V
https://ibb.co/8XfWM3t
https://ibb.co/k14sMtL
https://ibb.co/pL2snBK
https://ibb.co/VQkvvLq
https://ibb.co/GvZq7Cs
https://ibb.co/3yVjv2q
https://ibb.co/z8NKbcq
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madsenshooter
- Posts: 1179
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Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
Yes it is a Danish Krag. You'll find some info to sort through about the cases and reloading here: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?16659-8X58R-Danish-M89-Ammo-Question
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butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
'toddm' - Welcome to the KCA Forum!
Yes, you have a Danish Model 1889 Army Rifle, serial #117602. It was manufactured in 1918, at Haerens Tojhus (Army Arsenal) in Copenhagen, Denmark.
From your photos, it appears your rifle is complete with all matching parts.
Denmark was the first country to adopt the Krag-Jorgensen, followed by the U.S. (1892 - .30-40 caliber) and Norway (1894 - 6.5X55mm caliber). A small number of Steyr made rifles, (Norwegian model 1894), were used by Boers in South Africa, during their 1899-1902 war with GB.
The Danish Krag has lots of early features, like the front-opening 'magazine gate' and steel barrel-jacket, that disappeared with later designs. Danish Krags have a good reputation for quality.
Your rifle does use the 8X58mm-Rimmed Danish Krag cartridge. I have never owned a Danish Krag nor do I have experience with the cartridge.
Other KCA members would have more experience in that regard.
You can see some information on the Danish Krag if you 'mouse click' on the KCA banner at the top of this page and then 'click' on "photos".
Also, the 'Gunboard's Forums' has a site devoted to Krags that has a lot of Scandinavian involvement.
Yes, you have a Danish Model 1889 Army Rifle, serial #117602. It was manufactured in 1918, at Haerens Tojhus (Army Arsenal) in Copenhagen, Denmark.
From your photos, it appears your rifle is complete with all matching parts.
Denmark was the first country to adopt the Krag-Jorgensen, followed by the U.S. (1892 - .30-40 caliber) and Norway (1894 - 6.5X55mm caliber). A small number of Steyr made rifles, (Norwegian model 1894), were used by Boers in South Africa, during their 1899-1902 war with GB.
The Danish Krag has lots of early features, like the front-opening 'magazine gate' and steel barrel-jacket, that disappeared with later designs. Danish Krags have a good reputation for quality.
Your rifle does use the 8X58mm-Rimmed Danish Krag cartridge. I have never owned a Danish Krag nor do I have experience with the cartridge.
Other KCA members would have more experience in that regard.
You can see some information on the Danish Krag if you 'mouse click' on the KCA banner at the top of this page and then 'click' on "photos".
Also, the 'Gunboard's Forums' has a site devoted to Krags that has a lot of Scandinavian involvement.
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
Only seen these in pictures so do not believe anything I say. The Krag looks nice, did your brother fire it at all before the health issues? If so that may be an indication of safety. The bore is clean and unobstructed (not plugged)? The chamber looks bright and clean? Another member mentioned a chamber that looked to be intentially destroyed.
Fore and aft play in the bolt could be measured with indicators with and without one of your empty cartridges if you have access to that kind of equipment. That would check head space.
Those would be the first thing I would look at.
Also the muzzle end looks funny to me in one of the photos, maybe that is normal as I have never seen one in person. Other members here will have a lot more to say.
If you have a windows computer you can open a photo in paint brush and resize it to get it within the 768KB range. I will try 95% in both directions and save the photo to the desk top with RS added to the name for resized (renaming keeps you from destroying the original). If it is not under the limit delete the RS one and try again till you get it within the limit. Your first photo would be sPvmby2RS.jpg when finished, or something like that.
I took too long typing and 2 other replies got ahead of me.
Fore and aft play in the bolt could be measured with indicators with and without one of your empty cartridges if you have access to that kind of equipment. That would check head space.
Those would be the first thing I would look at.
Also the muzzle end looks funny to me in one of the photos, maybe that is normal as I have never seen one in person. Other members here will have a lot more to say.
If you have a windows computer you can open a photo in paint brush and resize it to get it within the 768KB range. I will try 95% in both directions and save the photo to the desk top with RS added to the name for resized (renaming keeps you from destroying the original). If it is not under the limit delete the RS one and try again till you get it within the limit. Your first photo would be sPvmby2RS.jpg when finished, or something like that.
I took too long typing and 2 other replies got ahead of me.
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butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
FWIW:
Brophy/"The Krag Rifle", (page 152) - "The 8mm Danish Cartridge was changed in 1908 to an improved pointed bullet and improved powder.
The 'Safety Catch' was introduced in 1910.
Brophy (page 154): "1. Rifle - There are four different types of barrel (A-D) ...."
Per Brophy on barrel markings, (page 156): OP's barrel is B-style barrel marked with - (script) "B" / three sided box indicates - "sharp edges of grooves" / 'crown' is proof mark.
Follow madsenshooter's link to Gunboard's thread and discussion!
I am sure there is some good data for Danish 8X58R, BUT, it is evident there is a lot of bad excessive pressure data on the internet!
Brophy/"The Krag Rifle", (page 152) - "The 8mm Danish Cartridge was changed in 1908 to an improved pointed bullet and improved powder.
The 'Safety Catch' was introduced in 1910.
Brophy (page 154): "1. Rifle - There are four different types of barrel (A-D) ...."
Per Brophy on barrel markings, (page 156): OP's barrel is B-style barrel marked with - (script) "B" / three sided box indicates - "sharp edges of grooves" / 'crown' is proof mark.
Follow madsenshooter's link to Gunboard's thread and discussion!
I am sure there is some good data for Danish 8X58R, BUT, it is evident there is a lot of bad excessive pressure data on the internet!
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
Thank you all...
1. I see that there is some dangerous load data on some sites. Thank you for the warnings. On over a 100 year old rifle, one needs to be very careful.
2. Thank you for the interpretation of the markings. Maybe I should look for that Brophy book.
3. My brother never shot the rifle. He had plans to before he started getting the horrible headaches. I'll see him tomorrow...I'll ask him if he had a gunsmith look it over...there is a tag attached to it where it looks like he took it to a gunsmith...or was going to.
4. The number on the bolt (11806) doesn't match the number on the barrel/receiver (117602)...would they have matched originally? It is strange that the bolt is a 5 digit # and the barrel/receiver is a 6 digit #. Does anyone know why?
Thank you,
Todd
1. I see that there is some dangerous load data on some sites. Thank you for the warnings. On over a 100 year old rifle, one needs to be very careful.
2. Thank you for the interpretation of the markings. Maybe I should look for that Brophy book.
3. My brother never shot the rifle. He had plans to before he started getting the horrible headaches. I'll see him tomorrow...I'll ask him if he had a gunsmith look it over...there is a tag attached to it where it looks like he took it to a gunsmith...or was going to.
4. The number on the bolt (11806) doesn't match the number on the barrel/receiver (117602)...would they have matched originally? It is strange that the bolt is a 5 digit # and the barrel/receiver is a 6 digit #. Does anyone know why?
Thank you,
Todd
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butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
I didn't notice the bolt number mismatch, when first viewing your pictures.
Originally, the bolt number would have matched the receiver's.
Bolt #11805 was likely made in 1891.
The original bolt could have possibly gotten removed during WW2 Nazi occupation of Denmark or when rifle was shipped to U.S. Importer.
IMHO - 'Head-Space' is not as tricky with a rimmed cartridge, as with, a rimless one.
FWIW - The wood in your Krag's stock appears to be Elm. Scandinavian counties utilized some 'alternative' stock woods.
Originally, the bolt number would have matched the receiver's.
Bolt #11805 was likely made in 1891.
The original bolt could have possibly gotten removed during WW2 Nazi occupation of Denmark or when rifle was shipped to U.S. Importer.
IMHO - 'Head-Space' is not as tricky with a rimmed cartridge, as with, a rimless one.
FWIW - The wood in your Krag's stock appears to be Elm. Scandinavian counties utilized some 'alternative' stock woods.
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Chickenthief
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
FWIW:
Brophy/"The Krag Rifle", (page 152) - "The 8mm Danish Cartridge was changed in 1908 to an improved pointed bullet and improved powder.
The 'Safety Catch' was introduced in 1910.
Brophy (page 154): "1. Rifle - There are four different types of barrel (A-D) ...."
Per Brophy on barrel markings, (page 156): OP's barrel is B-style barrel marked with - (script) "B" / three sided box indicates - "sharp edges of grooves" / 'crown' is proof mark.
Follow madsenshooter's link to Gunboard's thread and discussion!I am sure there is some good data for Danish 8X58R, BUT, it is evident there is a lot of bad excessive pressure data on the internet!
No!
The krag will take "almost" anything you'll throw at it.
The problem is all the old black powder Remington Rolling Blocks that were converted to this caliber (Norway, Sweden, Denmark), they tend to self destruct when exposed to full house loads.
Nominal 8x58RD for Krags is 38,2kpsi and only 23,5kpsi for the old rollers.
Double Dutch to you but the Danish words say roughly: Middlepressure not to exceed 34,2kpsi and no MAX. pressure to exceed 41,2kpsi.
So if you squeeze the lemon then max. pressure is 41,2kpsi as that was deemed safe back then!
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butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Supposedly a Danish Krag...unsure of what I have.
"No" ... Really?
I believe some of the old Lyman Data, Cartridges of the World data, and loads put up on the internet, may exceed the pressure limits for the Danish Krag that 'Chickenthief' has kindly provided.
There is no control over what gets posted online.
(We were not even discussing 'Rolling-Block' actions. There is no doubt a Danish Krag rifle, built for smokeless powder, is far stronger than a 'Black Powder' Rolling-Block rifle).
My advice was simply that the OP proceed with caution, carefully research data, and know there may be some bad information out there.
(BTW - If I owned a Danish Krag, I would want to shoot it. I would obtain brass cases, verify head-space, seek out appropriate projectiles and safe loading data).
I believe some of the old Lyman Data, Cartridges of the World data, and loads put up on the internet, may exceed the pressure limits for the Danish Krag that 'Chickenthief' has kindly provided.
There is no control over what gets posted online.
(We were not even discussing 'Rolling-Block' actions. There is no doubt a Danish Krag rifle, built for smokeless powder, is far stronger than a 'Black Powder' Rolling-Block rifle).
My advice was simply that the OP proceed with caution, carefully research data, and know there may be some bad information out there.
(BTW - If I owned a Danish Krag, I would want to shoot it. I would obtain brass cases, verify head-space, seek out appropriate projectiles and safe loading data).