Parts Holder Seeking Gun Maker to make Krags!

[granpasgunparts]

My Grandfather Joe DeChristopher had the largest casche of original Springfield parts and he kept it mostly on ice for 60 years. For example: I know for a fact we have over 10000 M1898 Krag bolt bodies most still in the paper and oil never used.

I'm seeking a serious business arrangement with a gun manufacturer / maker who would like to do a run of Krags. In my mind I see 3 kinds. I see a military style rifle and carbine and modern krag carbine with composite stock, rubber butt and parkerized parts (for the budget and hunter).

The only parts we need to have manufactured are barrels, receivers, stocks, firing pins, hinge pins and a few small parts.

I can supply:
Bolt Bodies
Striker Rods with Knob
Bolt Springs
Bolt Sleeves
Complete Extractors
Safeties
Cut Offs
Sears
Triggers
Side Plates
Loading Gates
Followers
Follower Springs
Trigger Guards
Barrel Bands (Rifle & Carbine)
Swivels (if needed)
Butt Plates
Sight Parts
Front Sight Blades
And some small parts, screws, springs, etc.

Most of these parts number in the thousands so coming up with what we could use on a manufacturing run is possible and will definitely keep production costs down.

If anyone is interested in talking more about this or knows a gun maker who might be open to this idea please let me know.

Dave Stewart
dbs3@granpasgunparts.com

[Culpeper]

Dave,

Welcome to the KCA. I am sorry to hear of your loss of Mr. DeChrisopher even if it is a little belated.

I doubt there is any enthusiasm for someone building Krag receivers or rifles. There is a group over on the CMP Forums who were building a line of forged M14 receivers to sell on the market. They stopped production after a year or so. Another gentleman associated with that group wants to retart the line under a different name but so far they are circling the airfield until demand returns.

Additionally, there too many dirty rotten #$^*(%#$$*ers stripping and parting out good rifles and carbines and leaving empty receivers. Then there are us fools who buy those parts to rebuild or replace cut down barrels, M1903 front sights, missing bands, missing hand guards, and the list goes on and on to complete the cycle of distruction.

There are some of us unstable types who would like to see every Krag brought back to life and shoot Xs every time the trigger is pulled but then there is reality.

I was down in Fayetteville and infamous and notorious Krag parts seller had an expensive carbine stock for sale. Big $$. I told him I already owned six. Then he perked up and said, "Want to sell them?!" Umm no.

I would think it better to encourage the rebuilding of Krags like the CMP does with new criterion barrels for the M1s.

Sorry for being long.

[butlersrangers]

Dave 'movieman' Stewart: Welcome to the KCA Forum. You broach a very fascinating idea.

My 2 Cents:

IMHO, I think building replica Krags, even using a combination of original and reproduction parts, would be exceedingly expensive. The wood components would probably be the greatest roadblock.

Maybe an investment cast receiver would be feasible, but, a lot of skilled labor would be needed. 'New Krags' with original bolts would be no stronger than original Krags.

A 'hybrid' Krag replica would probably cost more than a shootable original. We are really 'close to the subject'. In reality, the old Krag has a rather limited audience.

Trap-door Springfield replicas (although all new parts) are a case in point. The attempts at Model 1873 Springfields that have made it to market have never sold well. They are too expensive, are not as well made, and are no stronger than originals.

Actually, I think the greatest demand would be for high quality, 'drop in' Krag gunstocks!

FWIW - A Krag replica, that would have demand and a 'fighting chance' commercially, would be the model 1896 carbine.

I like your idea and enthusiasm for the Krag. Thanks for continuing your Grandfather's tradition as an ethical parts provider.

p.s. 10,000 of those beautiful model 1898 bolts! I'm blown away.

[psteinmayer]

Hi Dave! Let me add my welcome too!

I guess I'm of the same mindset as the others. Although a replica would be a reasonable idea, from a collector's standpoint, it would not be original. From a competitive standpoint, it would be great to shoot in an NRA High Power match with a modern equivalent of the venerable Krag, but the demand would be very small indeed. I shoot my 1898 rifle in Vintage matches all year, but replicas (as far as I know) are not allowed per CMP rules. So I agree there would be a tiny market for a replica, and the cost would far exceed demand.

I truly appreciate you keeping Joe's legacy alive! It's comforting to know that if I happen to crack a bolt, or break a striker or gate spring, there would be a place I can turn to get a legitimate replacement. God bless you for that, and for remaining faithful to our beloved Krags!

Paul

[madsenshooter]

I live in Ohio, and I have an interest in assembling such things. I don't think we'd have much of a market though. I can't see making new receivers, no doubt a very costly endeavor. The major ammo manufacturers ignoring the 30-40 would be no help to marketing. Trying to sell an original can be a challenge once the prospective buyer gets digging into ammo availability. No doubt someone has a bunch of receivers that would mate up with your parts, but who? Numrich? Due to BATF decisions, their receivers have to go to a FFL. Oh, paperwork! What's it take in the way of a paperwork (with the most important paper, money) to be a firearms manufacturer? Making a truly sellable Krag would require craftsmen, I'm just a bobba with a pipe vise and wrench.

[FredC]

I could see an investment casting in 17-4 stainless and heat treated at 900 F maybe with a little work you could mottle the tint to look like a case hardened receiver. It could be made to headspace on 2 points on the bolt and make a stronger assembly than the original Krags. I would buy a couple, about half the active members here would buy one or two, that would be about 100 pcs. I like the idea of a carbine length sporter with a composite stock and rubber butt plate also.
I am still in the business of making machined parts and assemblies but no way could I switch the mental gears and do the paper work needed to produce a commercial firearm today.

[granpasgunparts]

Thanks for those of you who replied. I understand what most of you are saying. That's why I'm hoping I can find a major gun manufacturer who has the tooling and capability of doing a run and not having to put much overhead into it. In my understanding it would cost a lot for any one of us to build a computer from scratch but having Apple or Dell do it would only cost them a fraction of what it costs us because that's their business. If Springfield Armory, for example, wanted to make 2500 Krag carbine sporters for the market I'm merely stating that it would be worth their while in not having to make all the parts I could supply them with would save money. I'm sure somewhere the tooling for the original receivers still exists. Composite stocks can be made rather inexpensively once the mold is made. Where there is a will there is a way. I've been saying for years that the only thing keeping the prices high on producing anything is US. Why does a replacement stock cost $300 and up? Because they only make a few dozen of them and they know they CAN charge that much. But is that the real cost? What is the real cost of programming a computer to forge a piece of metal into a receiver? If Winchester does it I'd argue it doesn't cost them much at all. My mistake is I tend to think big in the hopes that someone else will too.

[FredC]

A little off on this thread: Did Savage or Stevens make a gun that was somewhat based on a Krag? Kind of like Remington using their 1917 Enfield tooling and design to make their Model 30. I made a part for a friends rifle about 30 years ago and I thought it was very similar to the Krag but had the magazine on the bottom I think.
Back on subject, I doubt any of the original US Krag tooling still exists. Two world wars since when all available scrap was melted down. A couple of old photos have been posted here showing some of the machine work being done, that style of set up is no longer used in any machine shop I have been in. Also there would be a need for function gauges to measure relationships between feature on opposite sides of the receiver, that stuff will all be gone now.
The Krag receiver would be hard to digitize with all the strange angles. To make them today investment casting would be the only way to go.
Never made stocks but a wood krag stock can not be easy, so thin under the magazine, it would not be hard to scrap half of a 50 piece run. Look at how many poorly fit repo stocks have been made. Composite sporter stocks maybe would be easier.
Stuff like this is fun to dream about, I would like to have a Krag receiver and bolt made out of L-6 tool steel treated to 52 RC, with the guide rib also making contact, you could safely chamber it for Weatherby rounds.

[reincarnated]

I see the market differently. The vintage guys, the straight military purists are not going to want a "reproduction". No market there. I see the market as very high end ($3K-$5k?) custom sporters and maybe a few for guys who want to try Krag-era long-range match shooting.

Several of the big-time collectors of between-the-wars custom rifles have either passed away or have disposed of their collections. There are custom Krags and low-numbered 03s that are beautiful. There has been one serious accident and that was enough to retire the 03s. There are guys with $$ who are serious enough about classic-style hunting to keep the high-end custom gunsmiths busy. So a 5-shot or 3-shot Krag action in .30-40 or .35 Winchester or .405 Winchester, with premium wood, a good barrel, and appropriate sights will find a home.

[Cat Man]

Very interesting discussion. I have two thoughts.

1) I think there are enough stripped original receivers around that could benefit from a complete parts kit. Any thought to offering a parts kit priced lower than ordering individual parts one at a time to build a complete Krag? Better to sell the parts at a point that is affordable, than to keep a large inventory that never sells and goes down in valve every year until demand diminished so far that the inventory is sold at scrap price. That has happened in many related military collector hobbies.

2) I like .22 training rifles. An original Krag gallery trainer or field conversion is out of reach for 98% of Krag shooters. A reproduction cast Krag .30 Cal receiver with all the many required machining operations would be complex. But what about a simplified cast receiver (lower production cost) built as a Krag look alike as a single shot .22 rifle? Compatible with low pressure caliber. Popular lower cost ammunition. Utilize the original parts including center fire bolts with an offset rimfire trainer chamber?

It would never be a smooth as the the original case hardened receivers but at the right price point it could be an attractive option.

Just some ideas for a ways to make the Krag popular and utilize to wonderful parts inventory that is available, thanks to JDeC.

CAT man