Krag Collectors Association Forum

I'm going to try my hand at the long range matches at Camp Perry this year. I'm planning on shooting my 1903A3 in the 1000 yard match. My normal 200 yard load is a 168 gr A-Max bullet with 44.0 grains of H4895 and a CCI #34 primer. I can shoot the center out at 200 yards, but my question is this: Will this be accurate enough for 1000 yards? Should I consider a different load? I'll be shooting with the iron sights, and a prayer that my old-assed eyes can see the target, LOL!

Your eyes will see well enough, the targets are sized so the black center looks the same size at all ranges. Most .308, and 30-06 match shooters switch from 168 gr, to 175 gr. beyond 600 yards.

Paul,
Make sure your loads say sonic for 1000 (based on experience, Ha!) !75 grs might be a better choice.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi
Vic

That's a rather light charge for 1000 yards - probably in the 2500fps vicinity. It's not likely to stay supersonic all the way to the target - and since bad things happen to good bullets when they slow through "transonic" territory, it's a region often avoided by long-range competitors.

To keep comfortably above Mach 1 (1125fps in standard conditions) you'll need a MV closer to 2650fps, a relatively easy task with a strong 03A3 and good commercial brass using IMR 4350 or 4831. The slightly better BC of the 178 A-Max or 175 MK will also help reduce wind deflection by cutting a bit of "lag time".

Here's relevant IMR-tested charge data with pressure results below the SAAMI 30/06 maximum of 60,000 psi (piezo) -

30-06 SPRG
REM. CASE; FED. 210 PR
SIERRA 180 GR. SPITZER BT
.308" DIA.; 24" BBL.; 3.325" C.O.L.
[Powder -- grn.- MV - psi (piezo)]
IMR 4350 54.3 2670 55000
IMR 4831 55.8 2700 57000
IMR 4831 55.3 2670 56000

I shoot 175s anything over 600 yards in my SR90 .308 sniper rifle. The 168s are just too light to keep supersonic over around 800 yards. Depends on muzzle velocity, weather conditions and barrel, of course. You'll probably get keyholes if you try to push the 168s to 1000 yards.

Actually, you'll only know if you try. The numbers can be crunched all day but all of the factors in your situation will be the deciding criteria.

Let us know how it works!

This is great information... and exactly what I was looking for. Ok, so I'll look into some bullets that are 175 or above, and start working up a good load. I've been partial to A-Max bullets lately, but I am willing to try Match Kings if everyone thinks they perform better. Again, this will be my first foray into long range shooting, and I'm excited... but I don't want to look like a chump either... LOL

. . . I've been partial to A-Max bullets lately, but I am willing to try Match Kings if everyone thinks they perform better. . .

Try both, if you can. Published BC's are about the same. Use whichever groups best at needed velocity.

10-ring of LR target is 20" diameter (~2 MOA) so should be no problem on a dead calm day. Unfortunately, that's not usually the condition at Camp Perry and even a gentle 5 mph crosswind throws a good shot some 50" out for a six or miss at 1000 yards.

Long range is a wind-doping game. If you need to hone those skills but don't have a 1000-yard range handy, practice at 200 with a good .22 target rifle and match-grade ammo.

Paul
I've got some 178 Amax bullets, if you would like to try them. Would be glad to ship you a handful...
Vic

You might also try the Hornady ELD match bullets, very high BC. In my 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, I have been getting near 1/2 minute groups, at 100, and 300 yards. I intend to try the .308 bullets for .308 and 30-06. The Sierra Match King 175's have given good results at 800, 900, and 1000 yards., using an M-1A match grade. At 600, good groups 1 minute, or less (4") with a Springfield 1903 A3 (Remington 1943), which has Lyman 57 rear sight, and Lyman front sight. The ELD bullets have a higher BC than the Match Kings, when I try the .308 bullets, I will report.

Paul
I've got some 178 Amax bullets, if you would like to try them. Would be glad to ship you a handful...
Vic

I'd have to pay you Vic... or at least buy you dinner at the annual Roosevelt Match dinner this year... but yes, I'd love to try them, thanks.